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Author Topic: Suppose  (Read 1659 times)

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RHB-C5C

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Suppose
« on: 09, October, 2012 - 11:18:05 »
Suppose
This is my first thread on his forum and I does not own a C5.
And it sound perhaps a little stupid but after a lots pros and contras I’m also not intended to buy a C5
No what I want to do is to build a “C5”  from scratch.   The   “-C5C  “.
I did a little home work and I’m still in the planning phase trying to figure out about the availability of the stuff I wanted to use or what is needed.  And of course the costs.
I realize that because I ’m not in a hurry this maybe becomes a long lasting project or even a project with no chance.
Basically I want to make a modern version of the C5 with the look of the original one.
With all users and restores over here I want to put next question.
If you built a C5 for yourself what would be your changes?

regards Rijk

Offline mhurt

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #1 on: 09, October, 2012 - 11:34:12 »
Changes :
Lighter frame & batteries
All-weather canopy
More powerful motor - not for speed, but for hill starts, getting up hills etc
Adjustable seat position (and probably slightly longer)
Digital HUD/display (speed/volage/motor temp/distance etc)
Disc brakes!

Other than that, I'm not sure I'd change much

Offline KarlG

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #2 on: 09, October, 2012 - 12:55:02 »
Quote
Lighter frame & batteries                                                                        frame no, batteries yes
All-weather canopy                                                                                 yes
More powerful motor - not for speed, but for hill starts, getting up hills etc   no
Adjustable seat position (and probably slightly longer)                                ?
Digital HUD/display (speed/volage/motor temp/distance etc)                      yes
Disc brakes!                                                                                           yes

Besides the above:
Without a doubt CF monocoque construction and no frame
CF drive shaft instead of chain
Pedal drive gearbox
Motor drive gearbox
Towing hook
Shell intergrated solar charging system
Pedelec system and modern 250 W motor, to remain within the EU regs.
« Last Edit: 09, October, 2012 - 13:01:16 by KarlG »

RHB-C5C

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #3 on: 09, October, 2012 - 13:35:46 »
Quote
Lighter frame & batteries                                                                        frame no, batteries yes
All-weather canopy                                                                                 yes
More powerful motor - not for speed, but for hill starts, getting up hills etc   no
Adjustable seat position (and probably slightly longer)                                ?
Digital HUD/display (speed/volage/motor temp/distance etc)                      yes
Disc brakes!                                                                                           yes

Besides the above:
Without a doubt CF monocoque construction and no frame
CF drive shaft instead of chain
Pedal drive gearbox
Motor drive gearbox
Towing hook
Shell intergrated solar charging system
Pedelec system and modern 250 W motor, to remain within the EU regs.

Most of it I was thinking of too. 
I want it to be a useable bike in the first place. Not a racer. 
So speeds up to max 25 km/h will be OK.  But preferable for a long distance (80-100 km).

Rijk

Offline coverman

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #4 on: 10, October, 2012 - 10:32:38 »
Change speed gearbox on an electric motor? Why? What do you know that the entire engineering world doesn't?
Shaft drive? What justification?

Offline KarlG

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #5 on: 10, October, 2012 - 12:26:43 »
Counter questions, why do drills, even those with speed controls, have 2 selectable speeds and a pillar drill even more, and why do most vehicles have a drive shaft?

The entire engineering world knows that electric motors overheat when slowed down, lower back EMF and less efficient ventilation. I know the C5 motor has no internal fan, I could never understand why. If you read the rest of what I wrote you will see that I recommended that a 250W motor be retained, on long hills the motor slows down and overheats (or am I wrong?).

How many cars today are fitted with chain drive? Less maintenance, no stretch or tensioners, with age stronger, and with today's modern materials lighter.

EDIT: I must admit with a modern stepping motor (in- or outrunner depending on the mounting) and 3 line supply no gearbox is required.
« Last Edit: 10, October, 2012 - 13:37:41 by KarlG »

RHB-C5C

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #6 on: 10, October, 2012 - 12:52:24 »
I agree with you Karl about the gears on the motor.
I was thinking that a variomatic could do this job.  Like in use on scooters. But no idea if one can adapt them to the revs of an elektromotor. And what about the use of battery power?

Rijk

Offline KarlG

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #7 on: 10, October, 2012 - 13:21:21 »
I cannot think of any reason why you couldn't use a variomatic. There is or was a company in the States who were or have designed a variomatic gearbox for pedal bikes. IIRC it was in production, but there were complaints about weight and reliability. 
You are talking about a vehicle that is not a C5 and I would never recommend a C5 motor in a modern machine. You can select a motor to match the gearing or vice versa.
 
I have been referring to a 250W motor,  250W at any voltage configuration.

All these suggestions are based on a hypothetical vehicle , and to execute most of them you have either a very large bank account, or you're digging a tunnel under some bank or other.  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: 10, October, 2012 - 13:29:26 by KarlG »

Offline mhurt

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #8 on: 10, October, 2012 - 16:27:10 »
Quote
Lighter frame & batteries                                                                        frame no, batteries yes
All-weather canopy                                                                                 yes
More powerful motor - not for speed, but for hill starts, getting up hills etc   no
Adjustable seat position (and probably slightly longer)                                ?
Digital HUD/display (speed/volage/motor temp/distance etc)                      yes
Disc brakes!                                                                                           yes


If you lived here, and have the difficulty I have in getting up the flipping hills, you'd want more pulling power too and I ain't getting any younger! My powered wheelchair does the hills fine, but it's limited to 3.5mph, doesn't look as funky, and doesn't give me the chance to use my legs :)

Adjustable set position is for those of us that are taller, so we don't bruise our ears with our knees. I'd also allow more clearance between the pedals and the front of the C5 (the bit with the pod & light in), so those with size 12+ feet didn't have to pedal with our toenails :D

Offline KarlG

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #9 on: 10, October, 2012 - 18:53:11 »
Let's try and put things straight. You are only quoting part of the post, in the other part I quoted:
Quote
pedelec system and modern 250 W motor, to remain within the EU regs.

When the C5 was built it was built to the regulations that were in force at that time, if Sir Clive had introduced the C5 now he would still have to meet the present day EU regulations i.e. 250W max. Anything above 250W makes it a vehicle (in Germany it's refered to as a trike)and not a three wheeled bike.

If you're looking for a sleeping draught, have masochistic tendencies, or are just looking for a free ticket to the loony bin then I recommend that you read the EU regs.  :) :)

So if you want the power to get up hills, regardless if they are flipping or not, then your machine would be classified as an electric vehicle involving  a Certificate of Conformity (and this covers God knows what in the way of regulations), registration number, insurance, MOT, and if open a helmet. Sorry but this is not my cup of tea, I just want a bit of fun.

Here in Germany, if you don't meet the regs. then they throw the book at you, plus you may never see your vehicle again. I've seen this many times, mostly with kids but also a few adults.

Cheers. KarlG
« Last Edit: 10, October, 2012 - 20:08:12 by KarlG »

Offline coverman

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #10 on: 11, October, 2012 - 11:26:07 »
Electric drills have changeable gearing to facilitate dcorrect drilling speeds for different workpiece materials.
Electric car motors do not have changeable gears

Offline KarlG

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Re: Suppose
« Reply #11 on: 11, October, 2012 - 14:11:20 »
I respectfully request that you read the post from #1 before going off at a tangent.

Quote
Electric drills have changeable gearing to facilitate dcorrect drilling speeds
This statement is only 50% correct. The gearbox is to allow the motor to operate at an optimal RPM and torque range while the chuck turns at a lower speed. A speed controller allows you to slow the speed, so why fit a gearbox?
Slow your hand drill down by force and see what happens, even with forced ventillation the drill will overheat.
Again, why is a good electric drill equipped with a speed controller fitted with a gearbox? It's quite simple, when the armature is slowed down the back EMF decreases, more current flows, and the motor overheats. Solution, fit a gearbox, up the armature rpm and decrease the chuck speed.
Quote
Electric car motors do not have changeable gears
Who's talking about electric cars?
Quote
No what I want to do is to build a “C5”  from scratch.
The C5 is a bike and not a car, and to remain within the EU regs. it is limited to 250W. Cars are not limited to 250W, and if they were they would definitely need a gearbox.
When climbing steep hills the motor slows down and overheats, a gearbox would alleviate this problem somewhat. RHB-C5C suggested a
variomatic gearbox, is would be a very good solution as it would keep the motor at optimal rpm and torque, lowing the power consumption and heat problem. BUT, very costly. This leads to variomatic vs., stepper motor, I would go for the stepper motor.
 
This info on motors is based on the fact that I'm referring only to torque motors. Stepper motors and their control systems, would be great on a 'future' C5, are very expensive in proportion to torque motors and their control systems. Battery plus switch plus relay plus motor configurations are not posible.