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Author Topic: Reproducing Indicator Lights.  (Read 11620 times)

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Offline danny7147

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Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« on: 05, January, 2013 - 13:16:01 »
Agreed, if I had a hundred indicator sets I could retire lol! I'm quite well known in vintage bicycle circles and when I first started out it amazed me just how much people would spend. Rod brake set? Average Joe (mainly Americans) would pay silly money. It's not uncommon for sets to sell on Ebay for £30 plus, but to an American you can double that. The real irony was that in India they still make rod brake bikes to vintage English specs and with the help of an Indian friend I now pay around £5. The same goes for cranks, tyres, wheels, seat posts and even handlebars. Sure, to the purist they may be a slightly shinier metal etc, but for practicality purposes I'm always looking for alternatives ;-) The C5's irritating in that much of it was custom made, but I do know of companies in India that are fully geared up to replicate virtually anything and at a cost that would make your head spin mainly due to low wages and taxes. I'm really wondering if it would be worth approaching a couple of them to see what they'd charge to duplicate a few things like wheel trims and indicators. Again, to the C5 purist they'd turn in their graves, but a sudden supply of indicator sets that actually fit and cost 30 quid a set would surely solve a part of the demand problem?

Offline KarlG

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #1 on: 05, January, 2013 - 13:57:01 »
Hi Danny,

as the old saying goes, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Only problem is just how many people realy want original or repo indicator sets?
I bet you would have a problem to sell 50 sets, and I don't think you could order 50 at under £50 each, maybe a 100 or so. Can you lay out this kind of cash?

But as I said NVNG.  8)

Offline danny7147

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #2 on: 05, January, 2013 - 14:27:32 »
To be honest, the indicators are one of the trickiest. People will always pay a premium for originality... I once sold a pair of Hercules pedals for £457 on Ebay for the simple reason that they had Hercules embossed into the rubber! I agree though that repro will always fetch less but my big problem is the amount of C5 shells we see with holes drilled yet no lights, so maybe a much cheaper option is available. A vacform pair of plastic lenses, although looking nowhere near original or authentic, would cost a tiny amount to produce, would fit, and would at least give people a cheap option to have a way of having something to cover the holes. Moulds and production would be easy for that, but would there be a market? With vacform they could technically be produced for under 5 quid a pair... But the question is, given the option of a fiver for a vacform set or 200 for an original set, which would most people opt for?

Offline KarlG

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #3 on: 05, January, 2013 - 15:21:55 »
Hi Danny,

I think you under estimate the production costs. Yes they can be produced at a fiver, for lenses but not for a set, there's a lot more to a set than the lenses. Plus the cost of packing, transport, insurance, import duty etc. You can get the cost right down with an order of 5k or so but not with 50 or 100. Material cost is low but the molds and tools would be a lot higher.

If you look here http://c5alive.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2347.msg19535.html#msg19535 you will find that this subject has been covered.

As pointed out therein, there are problems with vacforming
Quote
I can vacuum form a set but that does not let you replicate the lines that are on the inside of the lens to diffuse the light.

EDIT: Forgot to say, if you can produce a good reproduction at a reasonable price put my name down for a set.  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: 05, January, 2013 - 15:27:33 by KarlG »

Offline danny7147

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #4 on: 05, January, 2013 - 16:19:56 »
I'll make this my spring project when I have more time lol :-) I've had quite a bit of experience with vacforming, it wouldn't be an import job, it's the sort of thing that I can easily have made locally, or even at the local college who have a machine. I can make a mould easily... It's unlikely to be identical to the originals, but as I said, they'd just be a cheap option to have indicators rather than a direct replacement. The way I see it, they'd be fairly rectangular leaving the buyer to cut to fit but with two recessed screw holes aligned with the originals. Valid point about the diffuser though! I've used clear plastic, and translucent/frosted, so first step would be to see if a frosted orange plastic is available as that would solve a big part of the problem. But... Do you think there'd be any market?

Offline MattC5

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #5 on: 05, January, 2013 - 18:31:19 »
As the front ones can be matched with Landrover ones I think if you did a good job on a similar looking rear ones they would sell - At the moment if you have them fitted and you damage them you are stuffed ! - Front and rear lights are another hard to source item  ;)

Offline Punjanaman

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #6 on: 07, January, 2013 - 12:52:44 »
On the subject of vacforming....don't know if any of you seen it but on the discovery channel over Christmas i was watching a restoration program...for the life of me i can't remember which one  ...could have been American Restoration...ANYWAY  point is he had to make a new light lens that was unobtainable...he made the new one with "a moulding kit" which i have never seen before.It consisted of a liquid plastic which was used for the male and female moulds and when cured he poured in a coloured (orange) resin for the light lens...when cured the lens appeared to be very good quality....has anyone heard of this kit ???

Offline danny7147

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #7 on: 07, January, 2013 - 13:55:25 »
A search finds.... It's actually very possible! I've found kits, but so far I've only found clear plastics in America. The program you watched by the way was about a 30's Packard with a cracked rear light. I'm going to research this more, but on the outset it certainly seems dashble to reproduce the lenses. Actual cost of the plastic and kits isn't too bad and, as an estimate if I could do it, a rear lens could in theory be sold for about £35 taking into account time and costs etc and a small profit. The front lens would proud tricky eve to the inside of it, but again, let me research this a bit. Well remembered :-)

Offline KarlG

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #8 on: 07, January, 2013 - 14:51:47 »
In modelling I have used liquid silicon mould which was sold in large 10 litre cans, looked like milk with a consistency just over that of milk. I have only used it for very small items, but I know of people who have used it for large molds for 15cm chess pieces. I have no idea if this is suitable for items that need a male/female mould. The last time I tried to buy the stuff, about 25 years ago, the shop informed me that due to low demand they no longer stocked it, up to date I have never be able to track down a supplier

As you can imagine the material, when set, wasn't solid but quite flexible, much the same as sealer silicon. I had to be very careful with complicated parts as the mould material would rip quite easily, but with something like a lens, if well waxed and polished, it would work quite well, plus all the fine detail is reproduced.

EDIT: This theme should me moved to a dedicated subject.
« Last Edit: 07, January, 2013 - 14:53:53 by KarlG »

Offline KarlG

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #9 on: 07, January, 2013 - 16:45:30 »
I think there is no point in trying to reproduce the repeaters as they can be obtained from old/new stock BMC/Leyland parts.

As far as the rear indicators are concerned I have a suggestion.

The silicon material that I used and mentioned in another post is readily available under the name 'Silicon Rubber', this can be found in the IN. This material is fantastic when it comes to reproducing very fine detail, such as the inner diffuser surface of the lens.

Have a look at this, and many more, in YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADXlUIkdqHc

The lens could be cast, with a very slow setting hardener, using epoxy resin mixed with transparent orange colouring. The slower the setting time the lower the heat produced, resulting in a longer mould life. It may take a bit of experimenting with the colour mix, what the hell NVNG.  ;) ;)
Epoxy is unfortunately not all that cheap.  :(

Of course you could always melt down some old orange lenses, but I don't think the mold would like it.  ;D ;D ;D

This way you can make an exact reproduction of the original lens, plus the cost would be quite reasonable if more than 20 sets were produced.

I would have no hesitation at having a shot at doing this,  the only trouble I have no original to copy, there is not a big enough market on this side of the ditch, plus the high price of shipping from here to the UK, and last but not least, too many irons in the fire.

Offline danny7147

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #10 on: 07, January, 2013 - 17:02:12 »
Latest is that I called a really nice guy earlier from easycomposites.co.uk and he's told me it's possible to do rear lights, lenses and pretty much mostly other parts too. It's very cost effective too! In his words they will be indistinguishabl from the originals.

And the best part? He's a C5 owner, knows about this forum and will write us a guide on exactly how to do it! How coincidental is that?!

In terms of cost, I'm not telling you because if I do manage to do this I'm not letting on my profit margin :p It's easily possible, and relatively cheap BUT takes a fair amount of time :)

Offline kamilb1998

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #11 on: 07, January, 2013 - 20:55:08 »
Latest is that I called a really nice guy earlier from easycomposites.co.uk and he's told me it's possible to do rear lights, lenses and pretty much mostly other parts too. It's very cost effective too! In his words they will be indistinguishabl from the originals.

And the best part? He's a C5 owner, knows about this forum and will write us a guide on exactly how to do it! How coincidental is that?!


I look forward to seeing what he can come up with!

Offline kamilb1998

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #12 on: 07, January, 2013 - 21:15:45 »
I have 'split' the thread from which these comments originated to two different ones to keep things on subject.

Offline KarlG

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #13 on: 07, January, 2013 - 22:56:37 »
And now have two sections on the same theme.

Offline kamilb1998

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Re: Reproducing Indicator Lights.
« Reply #14 on: 07, January, 2013 - 23:13:33 »
Is this better? Best I can do.