C5ALIVE Forum
C5Alive General Category => C5 Chatroom => Topic started by: Punterian on 12, January, 2015 - 15:23:37
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Have nearly finished restoring my C5 and now need to buy a battery - the original Sinclair battery that came with it is unsurprisingly dead!
Which is the best battery to use?
What happens with the battery cover connections as any replacement battery will have different terminals to the Sinclair originals?
Thank you.
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Hi,
use the search function for 'Battery', you will find all the info you need. ;)
If you are going to use the original cover then the size of the battery is important, plus the battery needs to have the plus pole located on the left, you will also need pole adapters available in ebay, IIRC, in the boat accessories section.
If you mod the cables, and remove the cover, then you need a power switch in the circuit.
The other alternative is to fit one of Chas's power cable sets, includes a power switch. Send him a PM.
Just one small point, don't select an oversized battery, the battery space is very limited.
Just found this info in my files. The 063 battery has been recommended (correct size) by a few members.
Edit in red.
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OK. Have fitted a power cable set from Chas now and connected up to a spare car battery - everything works!
Am now looking for a 80-85 Ah leisure battery to fit permanently, rather than using an 063 car battery. Can't seem to find one that fits - all too big. Any recommendations / info' gratefully received.
Thank you.
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For those looking for a reasonably priced leisure battery try here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251360016424?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D251360016424%26_rdc%3D1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251360016424?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D251360016424%26_rdc%3D1)
Just wish they were available here. :( :(
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Does the above battery fit in the c5's cabin ok?
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Hi,
length and width are OK, but at 220mm in height I'm not too sure. I was quoted a max height of the battery to be 206mm so it would fit with a cover, and seeing the cover has the key switch fitted it must exceed 220mm. My present battery is 197mm, but this leaves a lot of room above the battery.
It's no problem to measure the distance between the floor of the C5 and the lower part of the seat to find out if it fits.
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Hi don't forget the light switch hangs down a little
Chas
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What size, make or model batteries do/have you run in yours Chas?
Regards
Mark
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Hi I allways use leisure batterys 75/85 amp I know they tend to be heavy but you can get one one ebay for about £60\75 and they fit in ok also you could get upto 20 miles depending on the road conditions
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20 miles sounds enough. Does anyone know what determines when the Sinclair cuts off the battery? Is it a voltage level or something else?
Mark
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Hi it is the voltage and the power being used It will increase the motor temp and that will also cut out the power ..
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Besides the overheating and over current protection the circuitry is set to shutdown (motor only) when the voltage drops to 10.5 volts. Accessories such as lighting, indicators etc are not effected. This enables you to reach your destination (using pedal power) when it's dark.
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Sorry I wasn't very clear, I did mean at what point of battery depletion does the C5 issue it's 20 second beep. 10.5v sounds too low though, did you mean 12.5v as i had a google around and 12.4v is about 50% depletion on leisure batteries 12.5v is 75% so probably between the two would prevent the risk of damage. I'll check mine next time out.
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From the Service Manual:
2. apply the required battery lock out voltage to +BATT (top of R17). The suggested value is 10.5 volts
Also from the IN:
When fully discharged, and with load connected a terminal voltage of around would be expected 10.5V
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Hi,
sorry I should have explained a little bit more than in my last post.
When a battery is under load the voltage drops. So if the C5 cuts out at 10.5 volts the battery voltage will immediately rise. If you want to test your cutout point then you need to connect the voltmeter before and during the cutout, and not after it cuts out otherwise you will receive an incorrect voltage reading.
This covers the cutout only. I'm sorry but I don't know at what voltage level the warning signal occurs. Must check it out at some time. ;)
You are correct in as much the battery under static conditions should never discharge to 10.5v, this is the point were damage starts.
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Thanks Karl, will try mine and see, only using a small 24ah battery freebie until I source something else so was going to make a set of battery leads with 6mm ring crimp connectors until I get a suitable sized leisure battery, is there a wiring schematic for creating reverse polarity protection leads for a C5 anywhere?
Thanks
Mark
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Hi Mark,
I've never seen a circuit for the reverse polarity protection in the forum, but this doesn't mean there isn't one, try the search function.
C5Alive shop are offering them, and I've also seen them in ebay.
I could supply you one, but I don't know if I would be contravening the forum regs. :-\
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thanks for that kind offer Karl, I don't mind making one myself, was just hoping to see a tried and tested combination of parts and a schematic as it's a fairly common requirement these days I'd imagine. I could incorporate a buzzer to indicate when polarity was reversed but that might make me jump out of my skin every time lol
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Hi Mark,
OK ole. Av phun. ;D ;D
Cheers.
KarlG.
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Well I took a spin, did a few miles then got the beep, took a reading of 12.4v however I disconnected and reconnected and the pod lights reset and off I went again but only a few hundred yards then I was home but on the last red led. So there is a reset of sorts. Just thought to share :)
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Hi Mark,
if your C5 hasn't been modified then you should have two wires connected to the plus pole. The hefty lead is solely the motor supply, the thin lead is connected to X5 in the CB, and as long as you don't switch off, it's supplying voltage to the pod via the CB. If this supply is not cut off the ULA ((in the pod) retains the last settings, should you disconnect this wire all settings are lost and you start from square one again.
Of course if you only have one connection from the plus pole connected to X2 and X5, or disconnect the plus or minus leads from the battery, then the ULA settings will be reset on each disconnection.
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I would still say buy one from Chas, he'll supply it made up and give you a switch and a bracket to suit, and you won't fry your pod!
Cheers John
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I figured X2 was involved as power runs from battery separate to the ignition. I've got a control box in bits at the moment as I have two and one doesn't go so been trying to troubleshoot, looks like R1 isn't doing much and D1 is cracked so will replace them. I could buy a lead and change the connectors but I just fancied making a pair if I can. This was one protection diagram I came across but I guess you don't need the LED so a 4 pin relay could be used and the circuit changed. http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4368527/Simple-reverse-polarity-protection-circuit-has-no-voltage-drop
I've also had a nice C5alive member help in diagnosing and identifying resistors and so on which was greatly appreciated.
Mark
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Hi Mark,
This circuit is OK, but you need to add a switch between D2 and +, or between D1 and -. The other point is you need a unswitched connection between + and X5. You can eliminate this cable if you bridge X5 to X2 in the CB, but by doing this the stored data in the ULA is lost each time you switch off. Make sure you use a high power relay, min. 60a.
If D1 is cracked it's a good indication of reversed polarity connection. this may also result in other components being damaged.
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Thanks Karl,
these ones have the original keyswitches fitted so a reverse polarity unlikely? The chap had them from new and only used Sinclair batteries so far as I know and not been used in probably 20+ years I'd think. I've now changed R1 and D1 and the pod now illuminates (didn't before) although the leds slowly extinguish on the battery gauge then the timer alarm for low battery sounds after a few minutes. So I've a few issues here I'm just working through slowly lol.
Mark
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Hi I have repaired numerous control boxes and I always replace D1- it seems to become brittle through heat and is also damaged if the c5 is pushed / ridden backwards at more than a walking pace and as Karl says reverse polarity -The battery looping in the pod is normally a bad connection at the pins of the red harness or sadly a defective ULA - if you need any help advice with the repairs feel free to ask Regards Marty
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Many thanks radiomarty,
i'm new to them as you will have gathered. I have a C5 that works fine and this one, both bought untried locally from someone I know but didn't know he had these (from new) until I put the feelers out for one! He couldn't remember if they both went when I asked. Before I changed D1 & R1 the pod did not illuminate, fuse FS2 was blown so I replaced it and then a relay clicked when button pressed but the motor just had the odd spark and jerk but no go so will take it apart to clean it up and inspect. The battery low buzzer went off after a few minutes too which I thought unusual. Removed control box and changed D1 & R1 then refitted the control box. The pod now illuminates but the motor relay doesn't click! 12v power is at x12 when button pressed and relay tested in isolation works. So maybe its the other side of the circuit not working now or issues with the pod are having an effect so any diagnostic suggestions are really welcomed! I like to try and fix things myself whenever I can but appreciate I'm not an electronics whizz! PS should I make this a new post as it's sort of run away!?
Mark
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Hi Mark,
you may well find the problem with the motor is caused by the bushes being seized in their housings, this is a common problem with C5s that have been standing around for a long time. If you look into the rear of the motor the bushes are visible. With care use a small screwdriver, or something similar, and see if you can ease the brushes back from the armature. If they don't move, or move but don't return then they are corroded. The other possibility is they are worn and there is insufficient pressure from the springs to make a good contact.
A couple of questions, how good is the condition of your battery, and do you have a multimeter?
As Marty commented, never push the C5 backwards quickly, this can only result in damage to the CB.
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Hi - yes maybe best to start a new post on this one.Karl is correct you need to first check your motor is working correctly. You can prove this by directly connecting it to the battery and if no good investigate the bushes as described. Once the motor is confirmed it would be good to know what indication the pod is giving when the go button is pressed - ps recheck the fuses if you had a splutter and spark - Regards Marty
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Hi Mark,
there's one thing I find strange, you mentioned that to begin with when you replace FS2 the relay was working, and only after you replaced D1 & R1 it stopped working. Sounds like the problem lies in the pod.
There is no point in two of us trying to sort the problem out, so I'll back off and leave it to Marty.
Av phun. :)
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Two heads better than one so do keep an eye in Karl and thanks for your suggestions. Post now moved here : http://c5alive.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3653.0.html
Mark
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There is no point in two of us trying to sort the problem out, so I'll back off and leave it to Marty.
Av phun. :)
Hi Karl - I may have been doing this a while but can sometimes get side tracked - your input is most welcome and always very accurate- Marty
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Hi Marty,
thanks for the compliment, you make me blush. :-[
I prefer to conduct diagnostics by email, as with C5mike about 3 exchanges within an hour, it goes much quicker as almost no one sits at the computer all day. Mind you with the present weather I'm here most of the day. ;D
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Hi Mark,
just a closing shot to close this theme.
from the unofficial manual, referring to the LEDs in the pod:
The five equal incremental voltage steps span the nominal voltage range, 12.0 to 10.5 volts.
Cheers.
Karl.
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Anyone tried these? http://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-300Ah/?cur=1 4 of the 40ah ones in series would weigh about 6kg and give one heck of a range... 160ah anyone?
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Hi,
hate to bring you back to earth, but 4 x 3.6v @ 40Ah in series gives you 14.6v @ 40Ah, not 160. ;)
Two batteries in parallel doubles the capacity but not the voltage, two batteries in series doubles the voltage but not the capacity.
It would be great if your system worked, but.... :(
But all the same thanks for the tip.