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Author Topic: the law on c5?  (Read 5120 times)

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Offline plumber

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the law on c5?
« on: 24, April, 2010 - 15:43:03 »
hi there been out on my c5 today with the kids in toe on there push bikes....got stopped by the police? could any one tell me the law of the c5 and where i stand so to speak..lol...sorry if you have hear this a thousand times
many thanks
neil
 ???

Offline radiomarty

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #1 on: 24, April, 2010 - 16:59:39 »
The short of it is - anyone over 14 can drive it on the road, no tax, insurance or licence - assuming it is an orignal un-modded example. I'm sure one of the guy's will be able to give you the full run down should you need it.

Karl

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #2 on: 24, April, 2010 - 17:06:36 »
This is from Roy's site and our own Unofficial Owners Handbook in the download section ;

Legislation

The UK does not currently enjoy the same liberal attitude to low-powered motor vehicles enjoyed by many of its European neighbours. Thus, even the lowest power mopeds require registration, road tax, insurance and a driving licence.

As a result of activity by certain interested parties, and after tests and recommendations from the UK Transport and Road Research Laboratory, a new category of electrically assisted vehicle was legally defined in August 1983. The key features were:

Two or three wheels with pedal propulsion
Maximum weight of 40 or 60 Kg, depending on vehicle configuration
Maximum motor continuously rated output, 200 or 250 Watts, depending on vehicle configuration
Maximum powered speed 15 mph (24 kph)
In addition, this class of vehicle could be driven by any one of 14 years of age and over. It did not require a licence, insurance or road tax. Furthermore no protective helmet had to be worn.



« Last Edit: 24, April, 2010 - 21:48:25 by BooBoo »

Offline plumber

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #3 on: 24, April, 2010 - 18:14:07 »
many thanks..guys

neil

Offline mike7201

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #4 on: 24, April, 2010 - 18:22:52 »
hi there been out on my c5 today with the kids in toe on there push bikes....got stopped by the police? could any one tell me the law of the c5 and where i stand so to speak..lol...sorry if you have hear this a thousand times
many thanks
neil
 ???

You haven't exactly said what they stopped you for.  Was it to ask if they could have a go?  Or, was it because they were too young to know what it was? 

I rode mine in the middle of the left hand lane of a main road yesterday, and rode straight past a passing police car (who waved to me).  So, I'm curious to know what they said.  Please advise.

marcdonnelly

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #5 on: 24, April, 2010 - 18:40:36 »
Do you think we need a C5 Police day to help them out and understand the regulations of the C5 from 1985... ????? because they seem confused .com.

Offline PLOD11

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #6 on: 24, April, 2010 - 20:50:51 »
What Karl said !!!

This is the legislation covering it, print it out and keep it with you.

If your one complys with all this ....  :-\  then no problem !!!  SIMPLES  !!!!!  ;)   

Well you did ask !   ;D

1. Effect of The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983 – Statutory Instrument 1983 No.1168 and The Pedal Cycles (Construction and Use) Regulations - 1983 Statutory Instrument 1983 No. 1176 together “the Regulations”.

An Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle which complies with the technical requirements in SI 1983/1168 (an “EAPC”) is not considered to be a motor vehicle within the meaning of The Road Traffic Act 1988. An EAPC is not required to be registered, have a vehicle licence or a nil licence, pay vehicle excise duty (road tax) or be insured as a motor vehicle. An EAPC cannot be ridden by anyone under the age of 14 years.

The Regulations apply to bicycles, tandem bicycles and tricycles fitted with pedals by means of which it is capable of being propelled. If the vehicle is to be regarded as an EAPC the motor assistance must be provided by an electric motor and not by an internal combustion engine. (which also includes adding a generator to charge the battery(ies)The electric motor must not be able to propel the machine when it is travelling at more than 15mph.

Furthermore, in order to be an EAPC within the meaning of SI 1983/1168, the vehicle must also meet the following requirements:

Maximum kerbside weight (not including rider) shall not exceed

- bicycle - 40kg
- tandem bicycle – 60kg
- tricycle – 60kg

Maximum continuous rated power output of the motor shall not exceed

- bicycle - 0,2kW
- tandem bicycle – 0,25kW
- tricycle – 0,25kW
     (250watts)


The Pedal Cycles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1176) imposes construction and use requirements for pedal cycles and EAPCs.

2. The effect of the European Community Directive 2002/24/EC – the amending framework Directive for European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) of powered two and three- wheeled vehicles

European Community Directive 2002/24/EC sets out harmonised technical construction standards for powered two and three-wheeled vehicles, including quadricycles (small four wheeled vehicles of limited mass and power). It is implemented in the UK by the Motor Cycles Etc. (EC Type Approval) Regulations 1999 (SI 1999/2920) as amended. The system of ECWVTA normally applies to volume produced vehicles with manufacturers issuing a Certificate of Conformity (“CoC”) in compliance with a type approved model. This provides a route for the vehicle to be registered and enter into service. An alternative approval route for vehicles is by way of the Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) scheme under The Motor Cycles Etc. (Single Vehicle Approval) Regulations 2003 (SI 2003/1959). This scheme provides for the approval of individual vehicles on the basis of an inspection, resulting (where appropriate) in the issue of a Minister's Approval Certificate (“MAC”).

The Directive includes within its scope low powered mopeds that may also be similar in definition to EAPCs. These are vehicles with pedals and fitted with an auxiliary electric motor having a continuously rated power output not greater than 1.0kW, capable of speeds not exceeding 25km/h.

However, there are certain vehicles in this category which may be regarded as EAPCs and are exempt from both ECWVTA and MSVA. These are cycles with pedal assistance and an electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power output of not more than 0,25kW where the electrical assistance is cut off when the machine reaches a speed of 25km/h or where the cyclist stops pedalling. The exemption applies to two, three and four wheeled vehicles. Exempt EAPCs do not need a CoC or a MAC.

A vehicle is not exempt from ECWVTA or MSVA if it is fitted with pedals and a motor that can provide power assistance at any time without the rider pedalling (see also section 3 below).

However, if such vehicle (i.e. one which is able to provide power assistance without the rider pedalling) is an EAPC, our understanding is that the appropriate authorities (i.e. Trading Standards) are unlikely to take action to prevent the sale of these vehicles simply on the ground that they have neither a CoC or MAC. But they must conform to the appropriate safety and construction and use Regulations/Directives cited in this fact sheet. Nevertheless, if you are a dealer intending to supply such vehicles elsewhere in the European Community or the European Economic Area, it may be advisable to consider obtaining ECWVTA.

3. Vehicles outside the requirements of The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983

Any vehicle outside the scope of The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983 due to the motor power output, speed up to which power can be provided,weight, or that do not have pedals by means of which the machine can be propelled, are considered to be motor vehicles. They will need to be registered, licensed and taxed, insured and the rider will need an appropriate driving licence and wear a motorcycle safety helmet.

Four wheeled vehicles and vehicles propelled by an internal combustion engine are also considered to be motor vehicles.

Machines resembling a child’s scooter but which are fitted with either an electric motor or an internal combustion engine, have been determined by two High Court judgements to be motor vehicles within the meaning of The Road Traffic Act 1988.

4. Other legislation

EAPCs may also need to comply with the Electrical Equipment designed for use within certain Voltage Limits Directive 73/23/EEC (as amended) (commonly known as the Low Voltage Directive) and the Electromagnetic Compatibility Directive 89/336/EEC (as amended). Confirmation should be sought via the Department of Trade and Industry (Local Authorities Co-Ordinators of Regulatory Services (LACORS i.e. Trading Standards).

5. Access to the Regulations and Directives

(a) The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983 – Statutory Instrument (SI 1983 No.1168) and The Pedal Cycles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1983 - Statutory Instrument (SI 1983 No. 1176) are available from The Stationery Office (See below).

(b) Directive 2002/24/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 18 March 2002 relating to the type-approval of two or three-wheel motor vehicles is also available from The Stationery Office and is published on the EUR-Lex European Legislation website: http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/search/search_lif.html
« Last Edit: 24, April, 2010 - 20:53:43 by PLOD11 »

Offline radiomarty

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #7 on: 24, April, 2010 - 20:55:41 »
Blimey !

Offline mike7201

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #8 on: 24, April, 2010 - 21:29:59 »
That's really handy.  Might print that off and put it in the boot for reference.  However, if it's legal to ride, then there should be no need, and the police should be aware of that and it should be their 'lookout'. Having said this, that still doesn't answer my question. 

I'm still curious as to why he was stopped by police.  There has to be a reason, or it could've just been that they wanted to have a better look at it.  Either way, it would be helpful to know the reason for being stopped.

Cheers.

Karl

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #9 on: 24, April, 2010 - 21:47:35 »
With so many subjects containing so much legislation,combined with the complexity of it all, I'm really not at all surprised that the average police officer struggles a bit with some of the more bizarre stuff.

This is from an earlier posting;

It really is a legal minefield, this is an extract from a source that the Police refer to ;


 Whether a pedal vehicle with an electric motor should be regarded as a pedal cycle or a motor vehicle (as per section 185 RTA 1988) depends on it's primary method of propulsion. In Winter v DPP 2002 the Court considered the nature of a 'City bug', a scooter type device with an electric motor and pedals on the front wheel (fitted to try and get round the above British regulations).
The American version of the City Bug (was) without the pedals
 
The vehicle was shown to be primarily intended for use with a motor. Using the pedals was difficult and precarious. It could not be used safely on the roads by pedal power alone. The vehicle was deemed to be a motor vehicle not a pedal cycle. Also see the document relating the the meaning of a motor vehicle and / or DPP v Saddington 2000 for a similar decision regarding Go-ped type powered scooters.
A pedal cycle with a built in electric motor to assist on hills was marketed by Sir Clive Sinclair in the 1990's as a 'Zike'. This was held to be a  pedal cycle. The question as to whether Sir Clive's ill-fated electric 'C5' machine was a pedal cycle is less clear. It is considered more likely that it would now be regarded as a motor vehicle because the pedals were intended to assist the electric motor rather than the other way round.
If there is some doubt in the future it is suggested that a look at the marketing literature produced by a manufacturer may assist and of course if need be a statement may always be obtained from them. However, the matter will ultimately be a decision for the courts.



This suggests it would probably be difficult to remanufacture a standard C5 and get it past todays rules

In short, my understanding is that the C5 was constructed to fit within the relevant 1983 legislation and that subsequent amendments are not enforced retrospectively i.e. as in present legal requirements such as seatbelts dont apply to vintage cars. So brand new electrically assisted bikes have to adhere to tougher rules than older stuff.

Lastly, the Police in Wales actually provided an escort and stopped traffic for the convoy of Sinclair C5's that took part in the April 2008 run - I'm sure if they were illegal to use they wouldn't have been so helpful  :)

« Last Edit: 24, April, 2010 - 21:53:21 by BooBoo »

Offline plumber

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #10 on: 24, April, 2010 - 22:14:40 »
wow...many thanks boys....i will definately print that off and put that in the boot for next time...but will all that paper make my c5 over weight lol......i think the reason the police were so keen on the c5 because its a bit of the unknown......and they asked to see the tax disc..lol....more of a chat and he said he going to check out the rules on them
my c5 is total standard and the kids where on their push bikes and not the c5

many thanks
neil

Offline techytype

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Re: the law on c5?
« Reply #11 on: 03, May, 2010 - 18:18:45 »
my thought is was the C5 on the road or the pavement? only vehicle allowed on the pavement is an invalid vehicle.

if the C5 is classed as a bicycle then it is only legal on ride it on the road or on designated cycle path's.

another one of those interesting facts i was made aware of listenning to a local radio, they covered a accident case, we all know if you hit a pedestrian on a crossing you are into some seriously deep poo poo, but if they are riding a bike then the are not protected in law the same degree as a pedestrian is.

so be careful if crossing on a Zebra and riding in a C5, as being classed a a bike/trike the oncoming drivers are not compelled to stop for you even if you have a wheel on the crossing.

there could be in a nasty squish if you are the type that suddenly crosses in seeming contempt of motorists, without any warning or pause for anyone else safety.

regs
ALan