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Author Topic: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II  (Read 4488 times)

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Offline Umpa

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Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« on: 06, July, 2009 - 12:23:27 »
Karl asked me to roadtest a 12v deep discharge 65AH gel battery.



As you can see, there are no posts so I went to my local garage and picked up a scrap battery.



I cut the poles off the scrap battery with a hacksaw blade (be careful) as the poles have acid in them. Drilled a 6mm hole down the centre of them, and used some 6M bolts from wilko's (they are the correct thread).







Here's a pic of the battery with poles



Here is a pic of the battery installed - I had to use a bungee to hold the battery back.



Check out how much foot-pedel room there is - its only just a juster, not sure how ppl with big feet are going to get on.



I'll be sure to post tonight on how many pips I use, normally I loose 1 pip on a 85AH leisure battery on a round trip.

Offline Umpa

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #1 on: 06, July, 2009 - 14:17:34 »
Well I did a lap of the village, 2.5 miles and then went to work another 2.5 miles of hills. It hammered it down. In fact it rained so hard the motor stalled up a hill.

I could not see anything, my hood of my c5 wind cheater kept blowing off, and I got drenched.

C5 lost no pips at all - no not one single light. My orange leisure battery wold have lost 1 pip by now.

It's looking good so far, I'll know more tonight. 

Offline Umpa

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #2 on: 06, July, 2009 - 22:23:45 »
Well Its done 1 lap of the village and got me to and from work, and not lost not a light.  No matter what battery I have used none have done this they all lose at least 1 green light - so this is looking like a real benefit.


Karl

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #3 on: 06, July, 2009 - 22:34:33 »
Outstanding mate  8)

..still early days, but looking promising  ;)

Offline Umpa

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #4 on: 08, July, 2009 - 18:57:30 »
I have since found out it's 3.2 miles to work, and Tuesday was a disaster as I broke my pod system, so can't tell for sure how the battery performed. Today Wednesday I went to work in the car because I broke my back lol.

What I can tell you is that after 10 hrs of charging the battery was not full, so they take more charging than a regular battery.

I'll update more when I recover. 

Offline radiomarty

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #5 on: 08, July, 2009 - 19:43:46 »
Hope your back gets better soon mate - we need our test pilot!!!!

Karl

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #6 on: 09, July, 2009 - 08:27:20 »
Hope your back gets better soon mate - we need our test pilot!!!!

.... test pilot and top cameraman/film maker   8)

Hope you are back on your feet soon mate  :)

Offline radiomarty

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #7 on: 09, July, 2009 - 21:14:11 »
Ah yes not forgetting top film maker !!!!!


Offline Umpa

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #8 on: 15, August, 2009 - 20:33:03 »
Guys - your to kind  ;D

Today Markie and me went on a 15mile run - took just over an hour and a half, man the hill were steep - both C5's stalled on one hill (that's a problem with the original block as you cant reset it without the key) - not good on the top of a hill !!!!

It was windy too, and The Gel battery showed half full when we got back - thing is these gel batteries seem to hold their charge much much better than a lead acid.  Usually my 'fuel gauge' drops rapid at half way point - but these Gel Jobs seem to have more stamina.

Marks Sinclair Battery and an 038 both drained at about 12 miles out, we had to keep taking his block off to reset the battery protection. - this means that as a father - son project we cant go any further (and hope to get back) - so I'm going to have to sort something out.

Looks like Gel is the best affordable way to go.

Offline Umpa

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #9 on: 16, August, 2009 - 08:28:15 »
Ps.

I realise the one I have as a 65AH version, but it out performs an 85AH Leasure battery by a Long way.

Offline radiomarty

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #10 on: 16, August, 2009 - 08:40:54 »
What sort of price are these batteries ?

Offline Umpa

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #11 on: 16, August, 2009 - 08:48:04 »
Not cheap :- https://www.batterymasters.co.uk/Product-Yuasa-NPL65-12,-12V-65Ah_1789.aspx

I have seen some equivalent for about 80 sheets.

Heres the exact one :- http://www.yuasabatteries.co.uk/np65-12i-73-p.asp
« Last Edit: 16, August, 2009 - 09:10:17 by Umpa »

Offline techytype

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #12 on: 27, October, 2009 - 21:06:04 »
hi everyone,

i hope nobody minds me inserting into this thread, but it is some of my initial thoughts and it is on batteries -:

I’m new on the C5 scene, having an engineering background i have many questions perhaps even some idea’s to contemplate.

some constructively intended early observations/thoughts.
I noticed some C5's had a 70 amp battery, 'DAVE' also had a big battery fitted, obviously this is to improve running times. But there is a couple of counter trade offs because of the extra weight involved.

While on this these batteries, the ones i see were placed in the 'near side' of the rear foot well, given the rear brake works only on the ‘off side’ wheel, when applied the weight of the bike is added to by the battery and increasing the side ways tendencies of the bike.

it might be better to have the battery/s on the right hand side to reduce this effect

I don’t know the power consumption of the C5’s motor, but for ease of explanation lets say it is 17 amps under reasonable loading up an incline.

On Ebay there are available sealed gel 12 volt batteries rated at "17 AH heavy duty", as is used in other electric vehicles, the large one used in this thread is the same but bigger AH.

Not to be confused with similar looking batteries used in security systems, they are designed for long term low constant current, low discharge discharge and low duty cycle.

First thing to mention here is they are far safer than regular car batteries as there is no lquid sulfuric acid to leak in an accident (btw nice RTA Demo on Sunday Angie  ;D). I would also say any battery should be secured in the bike, so should it turn over it remains secured and safely in place, it’s a legal requirement and MOT failure for all vehicles, so could be a legal matter in the C5’s for some smarty pants Copper just out of training.

Before I go on, and so everyone can better understand the following theory. To work out the life of any battery you simply divide the current drawn into the AH (Amp Hour) rating of the battery.

This means if fully charged and in pristine condition they will supply 17 amps @ 12 volts for 1 hour before the voltage drops (or 8.5 amps @ 12 volt’s for 2 hours etc).

Based on that calculation, one of these batteries will run a C5 motor (assumiing 17 amps drawn) continuously for one hour, like I said I have not been on the C5 scene for long- mere seconds, but from mu 1st Brighton Run, that’s way long enough for anyone to be in one of those seats for any ‘stint’ I’d say, especially I they ever want to be able top propagate the human race further , I’m still trying to get my pelvis out of my shoulder blades after ‘catching air’ over a road trench surface repair.

Given the much smaller size and weight, if we were to install a second 17 AH battery on parallel, we could in theory have 2 hours continuous run time. it should be possible to fit solar panels to charge the battery that is in stand bye, to aid even more run time by using a simple selector switch.

With some reasonable simple rigging of a relay, the soar panel could be recharging the batteries when the motor is not being powered, all that is needed is a relay with its coil wired across the motor power input, when energized by the voltage going to the motor the relay contacts disconnect the solar panel.

Might not seem much, but at Brighton Run we had several extended stops to chat with the natives, drink coffee and drive through Mc Donalds (what a giggle that was lol!), so these periods the batteries would get a top up. Might have saved the young mans legs (sory useless with names) or at least some of the peddling when his battery failed.

Either way, a 17 AH battery would give emergency power for when the main battery fails, a bit like a reserve tank on a motor cycle.

If anyone has tried out these ideas please let me know how you got on

Regs
Alan

Offline Umpa

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #13 on: 28, October, 2009 - 09:18:49 »
Hi Alan,

The C5 motor was a good motor in its day but its not as efficient as newer motors.  Alot of power is wasted in heat, its a 250w 12v motor.  During normal running I understand it draws about 20 Amps, but can draw as much as 100amps, I am told that the C5 has a 140amp stall limit.

Terrain will affect how much power is used as well as how heavy the rider (driver) is.  The C5 originally shipped with a 36AH battery and this proved to be not enough.

Offline techytype

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Re: Lets Talk Battery ! Part II
« Reply #14 on: 28, October, 2009 - 11:03:25 »
Hi Alan,

The C5 motor was a good motor in its day but its not as efficient as newer motors.  Alot of power is wasted in heat, its a 250w 12v motor.  During normal running I understand it draws about 20 Amps, but can draw as much as 100amps, I am told that the C5 has a 140amp stall limit.

Terrain will affect how much power is used as well as how heavy the rider (driver) is.  The C5 originally shipped with a 36AH battery and this proved to be not enough.
thanks umpa,

those figures explains a lot, i'm not sure what a 17ah can deliver in a short duration burst before damage to the plates occurs, we would need to seek the makers specification.

the battery post modification is very neat and very well done, the only downside that worries me is the loss of warranty on such an expensive item, should you be unlucky and get a week one tears will likely follow because you chopped off flanged posts.

changing the posts makes very good sense allowing the clip on battery clips, but instead of chopping off the new battery lugs, i wonder could the 'donated' posts be slotted to fit over the flanges as packers, accept the posts then held perhaps with grub screws?

'back in the day' when i was just a wet behind the ears trainee motor mechanic (that was shortly after i stopped being stuffed up chimneys by the local sweep) there was a battery post adapter, it allowed you to fit a flanged posted battery connected to a round posted lead connector.

i'm not sure if they are still available, or if there would have enough room to still be able to pedal, but would not be to hard to cobble something up from some thick copper strips or battery straps.

regs
alan