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Author Topic: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion  (Read 14493 times)

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Offline radiomarty

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #30 on: 22, February, 2010 - 09:44:36 »
I have to say ElectricDave is a genius  8) :)
[/quote]

Have to agree mate - top man to have around.

Karl

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #31 on: 22, February, 2010 - 09:59:36 »
Looking good karl. I want one  ;D

Daz

...I've also had a reply from Jason Bradbury, this project has caught his eye as well  8)

automino

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #32 on: 22, February, 2010 - 13:05:18 »
Hi Karl, is the intention here to eventually sell a full conversion kit.  If so I would it not be preferrable to also sell the utimate braking enhancement to tame that 25mph?  I've seen some different applications of disc brakes and wondered if there is one in particular that stands amongst the rest which would be supplied as an optional part of the upgrade.

Im also thinking about future upgrades and the issue of suspension.  Of course this would have to be lightweight and perhaps those mountain bike springs which can be adjusted could well fit the bill.  I'll have a think about how this could be designed in and keep the C5 light.  I may be however that some chasis mods would be needed.   It would be nice to have a C5 fully original to preserve and also one that was truely practical with 24v, disc braking and suspension without excessive cost of mods.

Thoughts folks?  Dont want to spend any time on this if its just sounds like nonsense.

Karl

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #33 on: 23, February, 2010 - 21:38:47 »
At the moment we are taking one step at a time - and for now that is getting the gearbox conversion properly sorted  8).

Getting involved in anything else at this stage would just be a distraction, both timewise and financially.

I dont see much of a demand for suspension & disc brake conversions at the moment. If the situation changes we can always take a look at it later  :).


Offline PLOD11

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #34 on: 23, February, 2010 - 22:56:34 »
Would this be ok to fit to standard 12 volt version C5, to replace the current standard gearbox ?

Karl

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #35 on: 24, February, 2010 - 09:53:36 »
Would this be ok to fit to standard 12 volt version C5, to replace the current standard gearbox ?

It is indeed  8)

The idea is that if you wanted to venture down the 24v route, this kit could be the first stage allowing you to run around on 12v whilst saving up for the rest.

Or you could stop at 12v .

 

Offline techytype

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #36 on: 24, February, 2010 - 11:09:57 »
the C5 has problems stopping @ 1v  ;D ;D ;D

i wonder with the new gearbox installed if the 'load' warning can be virtually disregarded, was it's purpose might be more about protecting the original gearbox than the motor?

whatever the reason, the metal gearbox certainly looks like it's going to be a large step forward for reliability, especially as it can used to recycle a motor with busted shaft end bearings.

regs
alan

Offline Umpa

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #37 on: 25, February, 2010 - 09:39:58 »
No the motor cutout is to protect the motor from overheating or stalling.

Offline techytype

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #38 on: 07, March, 2010 - 16:48:15 »
Hi Umpa,

agreed that would be a very good reason, imo the motor run at 12 volt but i understand can run at 36 volts so is very robust.

the weaker links is the transmission chain are with the original gearbox, belt and the large dog, given the motor can run at 36 volt i think the motor generally would take far more abuse (not diret stall) than these components before failing.

has to be said here, the overload prevention methods used especially for its time, was very advanced and a credit to the C5's original design (just a pity about the brakes though  ;D).

as a point of discussion, i work in the electronic security field so i have installed many magnetic locks to secure doors over the ears. i have experience complete electro-magnet coil failures where for some reason the power is switched off and they have to run for extended periods on back-up batteries.

as these battery's voltage drops the current drawn by the maglock increases causing the coils to heat up and eventually fail.

on that basis with the new gearbox inplace and running @ 24/36 volts the motor will produce less heat by running at its designed voltage level, and why i ask can we dispense with this form of overload protection?

regs
alan

Offline Umpa

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #39 on: 08, March, 2010 - 19:03:31 »
The motor is not that great to be honest.  Heat is the killer of these things.  The main problem is the stater is secured to the housing with glue/resin, this glue softens and draws the magnets towards the armature causing premature failure

This heat can be caused by labouring the motor, but also with just plain old use.  24v kits can only make this worse, hence all the kits I have seen include a fan.

Its also the reason why C5alive have the cooling kit.

My first C5 had this problem and is a 12v original system.  if it were not for c5alive I would have had to buy a new motor from Adam and that would have been mega bucks.

Offline techytype

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #40 on: 09, March, 2010 - 21:20:16 »
explanation appreciated Umpa,

is the adhesive the only issue? if that problem was resolved i assume the windings are up to the job.

if the motor did run cooler on 24 volts at say 10 mph, being we are 'human' the risk is in effectively stalling the motor from standing start having extra power by heavy acceleration, or belting along at 25mph for prolonged periods, even if you accelerated slowly.

so has anyone looked the viability re-fixing the magnets using more modern adhesives? in my trade i use some 2 part resin developed for the sticking the tiles to the space shuttle (so highly heat resistant).

bitter prior experience with super glue's etc failing, meant i was more than apprehensive when asked to use it to stick magnetic locks to plate glass doors, got a letter signed absolving me of any responsibilities.

but it really sticks, no if's or buts, and it stays stuck even under heavy abusive use - i was amazed.

costs about £35 a 'pop' and guess it would do about 4 motors, so is it actually possible to refix the magnets either once they have come loose or as a pre-emptive measure?

regs
alan

Offline radiomarty

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #41 on: 28, June, 2010 - 08:03:55 »
Having had a look at Goldfinger after yesterday's Royal Run it appears the belt slip was due to a worn / chipped output cog.I was aware that this was not the best during restoration but was surprised how quick it has gone down hill(no problems on the M and M run). The solution for now is to use a spare slightly worn cog I have with a wide belt and then install the Dragon gearbox and forget all about it.Bring on the metal gearbox.
« Last Edit: 28, June, 2010 - 08:07:41 by radiomarty »

Karl

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #42 on: 16, September, 2010 - 16:23:35 »
The plan was to start selling the metal gearbox converions this month (September).

However, this has now been moved to January next year at the earliest...mainly because building the c-5000 took so much longer than expected, meaning electricDave now has a back-log of other stuff to sort.

I know this will come as a disappointment to those eagerly waiting on one, but it just can't be helped.



 

Offline Kurt

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #43 on: 16, September, 2010 - 18:06:40 »
Karl, any ideas how much they are going to sell for ? Cheers. Kurt

Karl

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Re: Dragon Technology gearbox conversion
« Reply #44 on: 17, September, 2010 - 14:06:58 »
I'll see what Dave has costed them at, I do know they need a very large lump of ally for the metal "fingers" ...