C5ALIVE Forum
C5 Help => C5 Support => Topic started by: Durango2k on 23, September, 2009 - 19:39:22
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All,
I tried to drive my C5 today. After 20 yrs in a shed I had to regrease a lot of things. And I found the 1Amp fuse to be blown, replaced it.
Now, I have hotwired it to a car batt, and it RUNS like hell. Got my son (6) to drive it, he's a lightwight (21 Kilos), so it RUNS.
I have some problems left, and want to fix them:
a) the pod does not work. No LEDs at all. Only the beeper came up after we drove a kilometre - but the car battery is OLD, and DEAD.
b) I took the pod out and apart, and found all looks fine except a resistor, R21. It's on the right side of the connector, just a cm away. It's burnt. And I cannot read the colours. Could someone please tell me either the value or the colours?
More in the next post, the window keeps jumping...
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...whatever the iE8 just did, here I am again....
I hope that swapping R21 would do the job. What else could I do except a complete resoldering of the pod ?
c) then, I would like to know for what reason the ignition lock has 2 brown wires. From what I can see the 2 wires are anyway always connected, so I thought I might as well put a bridge on the brown wires ? I plan to replace the whole (and defective / destroyed by previous owner) key lock and bat connector with a standard car bat connector set, freshly re-wire it into the control box, and fit a standard car bat cutout lock. But what would I do with the thinner brown wire. Thus my question.
Besides, to introduce me, I am in germany..... and surely the ONLY one with a C5 in town....
Carsten
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Hi Carsten - R21 is a 10R which i think is on the 12v supply to the pod. The second thin brown wire is the power supply to the pod as far as I know but the best man to contact is C5 Martin who is 'Master' of all things electrical.If you look in the site shop they sell a wiring kit to replace the key block should you wish to go that way.Regards Radiomarty.
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Hi,
a blown 12V input resistor, hmm. That maybe good (its blown and nothing else was damaged) or bad (it got SO much current all the parts died and this resistor even blew up).
All I can do is to replace it. IF I am lucky it got hot whilst the rest was still alive then opened when it burnt.
Took a look at the loom you mentioned- hey, that's 47 pounds (60 Euros) plus freight. Sorry, gonna make my own. My E-Type is where my money goes now :-)
But I must add one thing: Both wife and son drove the C5. Both now WANT ONE, so it seems I'll be after another 2. I know where at least ONE is. Electronics dead they say, asking 200ish. Phew.
Carsten
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Ok mate - let's know how you get on with the Pod - don't forget C5Martin if you get stuck - I know that need to get another C5 feeling - we started with one for my son and now have two - they are such great fun !
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Hi Carsten , it's good to see you on the forum :)
Once people remove the keyswitch assembly & fit their own battery connectors, the pod's and/or control box are sometimes damaged by people connecting the battery on the wrong way round. This is one of the reasons why we have produced our own wiring kit , it has the circuit protection built in and is more than just a few wires - could save some people a lot of hassle and money in the long run.
Once damaged, not all pods are repairable. The person I know who has the most success is C5martin, even he estimates only about 50% can be saved ;
http://c5alive.co.uk/ecommerce/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=34&osCsid=3c8a9c61b69be3782ad5c03540ed2da7
Might be worth a try ?
The c5 you mention that has no electrics fitted etc might still be worth saving. You could always run it using just a relay and an on/off switch. There are a couple of C5's happily running about with that configuration 8).
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Hi there .....
Might be worth having a look at the 5 volt reg in the control box, check its puting out 5 volts and go from there.
I had a simlilar problem, i changed the 5 volt regulator in the control box and that resister and it all came back to life.
Let us know how you get on !!
Welcome to the forum ;D
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Dont forget the help available in the download section;
http://www.c5alive.co.uk/downloads2.htm
Wiring diagrams, handbook etc ..
http://www.c5alive.co.uk/pub/downloads/C5-FIG-3.pdf
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Today, we have been out for some more driving. Great weather to go.
I did pull out the complete ignition lock, and built my own car bat connector. I saw no reason to connect the thinner brown wire to the battery, so I wired it inside the control box, hooked it onto the X2 (brown) terminal.
Now, after some 500ms of pure driving, mostly short after a stop, a beeeeeping sound comes up, and then the engine is cut of. Have to pedal.
I found that it drives WHILE it beeps, but when the beep ends, it's over.
But, when I then disconnect the battery, and reconnect it, I can drive again, for a few 100mts, till it comes up again. The motor feels handwarm on the outside. Is this a normal behaviour ? I did already open the gearbox using
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6 coins (1 Eurocent), and greased it fine after cleaning. Looked brandnew inside. I also greased all ball bearings in the wheels.
Should I take the motor out and open it to grease it ? How to re-fit the coals (brushes) ? Usually it's a mess to refit them. I have an IMP (Linwood IMP), and it has a dynamo which seized one day, so ask me how I know...
I did measure 12V on the pod on some places, but NO 5V. Only 12 or ground. I'll give the 5V regulator a visit soon. Is this the LM3xx ... ?
Finally, would you allow a 6yr old VERY EXPERIENCED guy a tour in a C5 ? He really loves it, and can handle it- but it ACCELERATES, cause he only weighs 22 kgs..
Carsten
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I think your beeping problem may be due to the thin brown wire. Although I am no electrical expert, c5martin did tell me that not having the small brown wire correctly fitted will cause problems. It is part of the protective circuitry that helps the pod "read" how much power is left in the battery. If it is not properly connected ,and the pod cannot "see" the battery, it will initiate the shut down feature to prevent "over discharge" damage to the battery - which is what I think the beeping is that you are hearing.
Disconnect and reconnect is how we manage to fool the system into letting us draw a bit more power out of a depleted battery, so it fits in with what I mentioned above.
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Well,
it acutally CAN see the battery.
a) normal situation: The brown thin wire (lets call it BTW for short) goes from the battery to the X5 connector.
b) I did remove it, and did bridge it from X2. It's the SAME battery, then, which it sees.
Hm. Confused. I might hotwire it. Just to test it. But I think I'll give the LM 7805 a short try first, *maybe* the pod not 100% working is part of this.
I clearly senses the heat, it only happens after a drive and then at standstill when heat builds up....
Carsten
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Gents,
I did some measurements tonight, and maybe I found some faults.
a) there's roughly 1.4 Volts on the input of the riveted voltage regulater (LM342). That is faaaaar not enough. Freaky, I sometimes had more, up to 12, and even 5 out. But not stable, not now.
b) Diode D4 is short in BOTH directions. Simply 0 Ohms. Have to replace it. Which value is it ? (Voltage, Wattage)
c) Resistor R1, 2.2 kOhms, is badly burnt but intact.
I did buy an 7805 to change LM342, but forgot to get some solder (mine is empty), and I don't have D4 obviously.
Carsten
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What I never ! got was 5 Volts on the upmost (Pod) or rightmost (box) pin of the red multiwire. So something is bad there. I do have 12 Volts on the pod, but not 5.
Carsten
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I think the idea of the thin brown wire, is so the pod remembers the battery state, when the original battery block was switched off. The lights and horn will also work with the ignition off. So in effect the TBW is a permanent live to certain parts of the C5's electrical system.
A faulty pod can cause the symptoms you describe, but as your finding out - finding the faulty components can be hard, but it sounds like your on the right track.
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Once you get that 5 volts on the pod you will be on the way to it working. If you have a look at the circuit you will find that most if not all the workings of the POD runs off 5 volts.
So get you regulator changed and that resistor and hopefully all will be well. Evrything in the control box and pod is replaceable, except the ULA Chip in the pod, hopefully this is ok as these aren't available anymore.
Good luck with it, hope to hear its all working soon.
John
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To give you the situation now, it still does not work.
I found a blown R1 (2k2???) to be the next cause to check. There's 12 on one side, but nothing on the other side. Removed it, and found it to be open. Will replace it, cause the voltage regulator generating the 5V for the POD relies on it AFAI could find out so far.
Will report back.
Carsten
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Good luck - hope this works
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Don't give up, you will get it sorted in the end, you need a lot of patience withe C5s but its worth it in the end !!! ::)
Keep us updated on how you are doing.
John
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Well, I did my homework.
I swapped the resistor for a NEW one. I was told that 2R2 means 2.2 Ohms, and so I bought a 2.2 Ohm one.
It virtually BLEW up in flames when I hooked up the battery. That was that for it.
Say voltage U = 12 Volts.
Now, U=R*I, and this means I did put roughly 6 Amps through it.
With
P=U*I it means 72 Watts.
Hey, it's
only specified for 1/4 Watt !
What value is this R1 resistor ? Is is 2000 Ohms ? Misprint on the plan, should have read 2k2 and not 2r2 ?
IF 2.2 Ohms is correct, then, why is it blowing ? I removed the cable to the pod first, but still, bang, hot.
I did swap the LM342 for an 7805A one, is this the correct replacement ? D1 was loos, so, I resoldered it, and D4 is NEW, too....
Carsten
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I tried tonight to simply bridge the 2.2 R1 resistor. Then, the LM 7805 gets DARN out (ask my burned thumb).
The old 342 does not get hot. Interesting.
Still, I never get 5 Volts on Pin 1 of the POD connector.
Dammit, what am I missing ? It looks so simple !
Carsten
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IT NOW WORKS !
It WAS darn simple.
First, LM342 was shot. Led me to replace it with an 7805. This then blew R1, because it draws more power. Then I put a wire bridge there, and then it still did not work.
THEN, TODAY, I thought there MUST be a shortcut behind the 7805 cause it won't get HOT and deliver NULL else. So I carefully looked, and found that I must have bridged C2 (lower left, C6 ?) when I re-soldered the whole board.
NOW, I have a wire bridge instead R1, an 7805 instead of the LM342, and thats all.
The right side of the Pod is fully lit, the left side lits- and then blinks only the rightmost LED.
What does it mean ? No idea. Will RTFM soon :-). Now, I'll reassemble it and test drive. It's dark and rainy ? Who cares.
Carsten