Hello all, I recently joined after buying a C5 that had been in a barn for a number of years. It was pedal power only when I bought it, but had a couple of thick wires in the C5 bodyshell which connected straight to the motor. The go switch was blown and therefore had been disconnected at some point, but upon connecting a battery to the motor it worked fine, albeit with the additional use of the light switch (which had already been disconnected from the light circuit) to switch the motor on or off. This worked fine for a couple of weeks and we took it to Santa Pod for the retro show where it got pretty much everyone there commenting on how they'd never seen a C5 before. It got a few more comments when my son managed to roll it, but that's not my reason for writing! After a few weeks the light switch blew, so I am just wondering if anyone knows a source to buy a suitable go switch, ideally to be put in the correct location?
I have another issue as well if anyone could help - I bought a leisure battery wiring kit and fitted it, and for the first time in my ownership the lights now work. Unfortunately after returning the motor wiring to the correct (I think!) positions (Black wire to X4 and red wire to X3) and then holding the go switch wires together (yellow and grey, located on the handlebars) I get nothing :( The pod doesn't light up either, which may or may not be related.
I did a bit of searching on this site and found http://c5alive.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=8a80e1feaa7f248ea27afacf053b47fa&topic=1320.0 I'd never used a voltmeter before but got a 12.8 reading from the battery so guess my voltmeter is roughly working! I therefore checked a reading at R1 in the control pod and got a varying reading from 0.2 to 1.8 (from memory). The reading the other/leaving side of R1 was 0.3, so would this suggest what is faulty? I'm just wondering if I need to try bypassing the pod as the next daunting step. As you have probably guessed I know nothing about electrics but would really like to get the C5 motor working safely (with thermal cutout) so I can continue getting about in it! Any guidance would be most gratefully received! Thanks
Hi there ...
Check your volts around D4 and D1 also what volts you have on either side of the fuses.
Also have you got a connection to X5 ?
You should have 12 volts on at least one side of R1 to start with.
Radiomarty offers a repair /exchange service for the control box if you get stuck.
Where are you located ??
John
PLOD11
When you say you used the light switch to control the on/off function of the motor, I assume you mean that you connected it to the yellow & grey wires that normally go to the button on the left handlebar? Small switches like this must never be used directly in-line with the battery leads as they simply won't be able to handle the large current flowing to the motor. The little microswitch on the handlebar switches the motor current on and off indirectly (via a relay in the control box). It's easy to test if that little switch is at fault by using a continuity tester.
C.
Thank you both for the replies. John - I've just tested the volts (with the lights on, in case it makes a difference) and got: Battery - 12.44V, D4 - 12.40V and 12.37V far side, D1 I couldn't find :o , 1 amp fuse - 12.36V either side, 5 amp fuse - 12.3V5 either side.
These were all constant readings, but a weird thing happens with the reading of R1, the reading fluctuates wildly between 1.0V and 8.2V with the reading changing every half second or so! However it read 1.6V on the far side of it. I'm guessing those readings are not a good sign ::) I have the thin brown wire from the Leisure Battery wiring connected to X5 ok, and am from the outskirts of Bedford (which has a fantastic cycle track called Route 51 which must have been made with the C5 in mind!) Would the readings suggest I need to start enquiring about a replacement control box?! And if the pod is also broken would this prevent the motor from working even after a control box swap? Thanks!
Scuba Chris: I used the light switch to control the on/off function of the motor, by adding some car radio wiring to either side of the light switch then putting it on the end of one of the motor wires running to/from the battery. I think I learnt my lesson with that idea when the switch broke in the on position with a worried eight year old on it, luckily going round an empty park in circles, for some time.... ::) The button/switch that was under the left handlebar was definitely already broke as it had a bit fall out of it upon examination. That's one bit that I didn't break myself :)
Hi there
D1 is at the top between x3 and x4,
You seem to have 12 volts in the right places, but the readings on R1 are odd, i would have thought that with +12v on both sides of D4 you would have 12 v on one side of R1 as these are linked on the pcb.
The POD may well be ok, but with out the 12 volts going across R1 to the 5v regulator (IC1)the POD wont light up.
Every thing in the Control box is fixable, depends if you want to have a go at it yourself, or to save the time and effort go for an exchange unit from Radiomarty, you can email him for details of his services radiomarty@fsmail.net
John
PLOD11
Thanks for your help with this, will check again then consider the options. Much appreciated!
Got back from Holiday and decided to rip the C5 apart in an attempt to establish why the motor wasn't working. Upon taking the PCB out of the control box and turning it over I saw a loose bit of copper ribbon coming from the 'channel' that links R1 to X3. So I'm guessing (with assistance from earlier enquiries :) ) that's the reason for the wild readings from R1 and the reason for the motor not working? Thanks for earlier help, just wondering if a carefully applied blob of solder to join the two pieces of copper ribbon together is all that's required, and will it make a difference that the green coating from the PCB is missing over the hopefully repaired section? Thanks in advance to anyone who can advise :)
Hi once you have fixed the control box and everything looks ok you may just want to go over the other joints.
The control box is fairly weather proof generally but if you are worried you can allways cover the soldered area with a bit of clear varnish or nail polish.
hope this helps
Lance
Repairing the track should do it, green coating is just a laquer thats applied when the PCB is made.
Give it a go !! 8)
Thank you both very much, will dig out the soldering iron tomorrow ;D
I had a go with the soldering iron and managed to fix the break, and could see 12V getting to R1 but not the other side of it. As I wasn't confident with soldering skills (or getting a replacement resistor) I bought a spare working board and have just installed that. For the first time in my ownership the pod now lights up, full on battery side and two orange led's on each side of the left side LED's. Unfortunately that's about it, as when pressing the replacement go switch I bought (which I think was a motor switch rather than a horn switch as it had yellow and grey wires on it) it just lights up the two orange LED's as before plus the next green LED. There is no noise or movement from the motor, which I've tested off the battery direct so know that the motor works.
Are there any known faults that this could be down to, or any further checks that I could make to try to narrow down the source of the problem?
Any advice would be gratefully received, as I'm running out of ideas and have tried searching on here for similar issues to no avail.
Thanks!
Initial check would be to check you if you have 12 volts on the leads to the motor when you press the switch ?
You are getting the correct indications on the POD, i know its a silly question, but are all the cables put back in same place they came off ? :-\
I did this once and had connected one cable wrongly ..
Have you a pic of the board with all the cables connected to it ?
I am sure there will be some others who will be along shortly with stuff to check, we can get it going.
The old Control board is repairable so hang on to it and we can get it sorted at a later date for you.
Thanks for suggestion, I put the voltmeter red lead on the red motor connection (where it joins motor housing) and the black voltmeter lead on X1 and it reads 12v regardless of whether the go switch is pressed or not! I then put the red voltmeter lead on X3 and then X4 (red motor lead and black motor lead respectively) and they both read 12v regardless of whether go switch is pressed or not! I therefore wired the leads direct to the battery and the motor runs fine (just to make sure I hadn't damaged motor since it last worked).
I've added a photo here: http://flic.kr/p/aeZLRX, (it was the right way up but the flickr website puts it upside down) >: to me the wiring looks the same as one I found at http://c5alive.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1390.0
I finally tested the yellow lead of the go switch and it has 12 volts and when the button is pressed the grey lead carries out 12v, and the voltage arrives OK on the grey lead on X8 of the control board.
I'm hoping it's a simple case of me not wiring something up properly! Thanks in advance for any advice :)
All looks fine from the pic, could be the relay, but not sure at this stage.
I will take some readings on mine over the next couple of days and let you know 8)
Hi Just noticed this post - hope I can be of some help.Assuming your new control box is ok and your pod seems to be giving the correct indication I would look into the red wiring harness from pod to control box - try wiggling it with the motor button pressed - ps you commented that you had 12v reading at the motor regardless of the 'go' button being pressed - this cannot be because it would cause your motor to run permanently !!!.Keep us posted and if all else fails stick it in the back of your car and pop over i'm only a half an hour from Bedford and would be happy to take a look at it for you:) :)
Thank you both very much for your comments and assistance, I'll try wiggling the red wiring harness and also (as I have a spare control box now!) try swapping the relay over tomorrow to see if that makes any difference - although of course the original one could be blown as well!
I wish it was as easy to work on as my old vw but I guess I should have expected it wouldn't be plain sailing when I bought it and noticed that as well as it having been converted to run the motor straight off the battery, a previous owner had seen fit to cover the fuses in tin foil! I'm guessing that's when it subsequently blew some of the printed circuit wiring!
Thanks :)
I dont think there is that much wrong with it, and you will soon have it up and running ... ;D
I swapped the relay for the one from the original control box (not bolting it's metal holder down, hoping that makes no difference!) and there's no change. There's no clicking from it but it does send 12v to X12 and X13 when the go button is pressed.
I then retested the red motor lead and it does have a constant 12volts to it! I thought about this and came to the conclusion that if it has 12volts the only reason it wouldn't spin is if it had no earth? So I then wondered why the black negative lead for the motor was connected to X4 which tests show has 12volts + running through it.... So I put the black lead on X1 and the motor spins, regardless of the switch being pressed. This has somehow got to be the root of my problems but I can't get my head around it. Is the black lead from the negative side of the motor really meant to go on a 12v positive post (X4)! Confused.com ::)
Try these photos of wires connected to the correct locations, hope they help.
(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j346/LanceColwyn/DSC03126.jpg)
(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j346/LanceColwyn/DSC03125.jpg)
Lance
The leads on you pic are correct, it would seem that something has gone down and is not switching the relay, i am nights all this week, so not got to much time to have a good look at the circuit, but will have a look over it later (all being well) Marty may also have some thoughts on it.
Its going to be something silly i thinks :-\
If you are about one evening this week i could pop in on my way to work and have a better look at it, not sure which night and it would be quick visit but may help to have a proper look at it.
John
Thanks John, the help would be most welcome but I've moved out of Bedford into Blunham (since creating the profile details) so it maybe isn't anywhere near your route into work?!
If it is en route I'm in all the while in the evenings until the C5 is working!
That's probably better, i come down the A1 from Peterborough to London, i think Blunham is near Sandy / Black cat ?
Send your address to my e mail and i will try and pop in on the way though one evening this week.
Had very quick look at the circuit and it could be down to something as simple as a diode .
I might have a working Control board you can borrow and then sort your one out at a later date.
John
Thank you very much John, I'm amazed by the help on this forum :) Email on it's way
The X4 post is negative post for the motor and if you are finding +12v there I would suggest your diode D1 = 1N5401 has gone short circuit and this is your issue - John if your popping over I have some spare diodes if you need them let me know bud. :) :) :)
Hi again...
No problem, got the E mail ok, can't make this evening, but tomorrow looks good around 7pm ish if thats ok.
I think i have some of those diodes here (Thanks Marty) .... ;)
So hopefully thats it and all will be well 8)
John
Thank you all very much for your help with this. I've just had another few checks of things and discounted an issue with the leisure battery wiring (not that I ever doubted that!) by using some of the original setup, then tried re-seating the motor wires just in case. I then turned my attention to the pod....
I removed the pod from the C5, took the cover off it, and saw that the prongs that you connect the red wire loom to from the back of the unit were actually extended through to the inside of the pod. I connected the red loom to the inside of these prongs (the correct way round) and the motor now works when you press the go button!!!! So despite the outside prongs looking clean, they aren't as clean as the sections that come in through the inside of the pod box. I'm gonna give them a wire brushing when I can get to the garage. I can't believe it's working at last! Well Happy, just a shame it's chucking it down outside so I can't go on a proper run with it :)
I would like to thank everyone who has suggested things to check and offered assistance. I hope that I can gain a bit more knowledge and help a newbie out in the future. This is easily the most helpful forum I have ever posted an issue on. I think I would have given up before now without the help of you all, so thank you all very much! Without wanting this to sound like an Oscar acceptance speech I'd finally like to thank you John for volunteering to visit the middle of nowhere to help get my c5 back on the road (or Route 51 Cycle track, as will be the case)!
Nice one, try some emery paper this also helps. You can also run your soldering iron (with solder) up the pins as the top surface will be taken off. This will help with a contact with the red 10 pin plug pins and help stop corrosion again.
Lance
Quote from: Markymark on 23, August, 2011 - 19:46:43
...I would like to thank everyone who has suggested things to check and offered assistance. I hope that I can gain a bit more knowledge and help a newbie out in the future. This is easily the most helpful forum I have ever posted an issue on. I think I would have given up before now without the help of you all, so thank you all very much! Without wanting this to sound like an Oscar acceptance speech I'd finally like to thank you John for volunteering to visit the middle of nowhere to help get my c5 back on the road (or Route 51 Cycle track, as will be the case)!
Glad you got there in the end mate - top effort from all concerned 8)
Great news - enjoy your first run !!! :) :) :)
Brilliant mate, hope you can get along to one of the runs ... 8)
This forum is the best for everything C5, a great bunch all round and always glad to help out anyone in need.. ;)
Just got back from the first run, ended up being out for a couple of hours, and only came back as the battery level was getting terminal :) Safe to report that Model Number 100050100948, after sitting dead in a barn in Northampton for over a decade, can now be considered as C5 Alive :) Thank you all!
Glad to hear it ........ ;D Another one saved :)
Are you coming to any of the runs, Rays one is coming up in October Norfolk... 8)
John
PLOD11
Great to here you had a good ride out :)
Retro Andy.
John: I'd like to attend a run at some point, sure I can fit the C5 in/on either car (roof rack for the old vw, and by removing the front passenger seat in the newer motor!) Might have to get the C5 cleaned up a bit better so it's presentable first though :)