Right, hi viz sets are now selling as well as I hoped so I've just got the silicone and plastic resin through for my next project. Indicators. Should have a prototype made by the middle of next week. I can't see the lenses being a problem but I'm still thinking about how to do the back parts. I can't mould the flanges on the rears so I'm thinking about making them to screw on from inside the engine bay. The front, the circular bulb holder is awkward... I'm going to use the two prongs as the pour and air holes. Any contributions before I start?
Hi Danny regarding the front lens why don't you use rover lenses and and take the back plate off and just glue it on to the new lens that you are about to make
Chas (ps the Hi viz flags look great thanks)
I would concentrate on making the rear indicators first,these are the most sought after. The front ones are identical to rover types for the metro and landrover and these are still available from many places on the net, seems a lot of work when the leyland version is almost identical and available.
Just a thought.
John
So are the land rover ones, are they exactly the same as the c5 ones? With the offset plastic prongs? Are they a direct replacement then?
I have a part number of: PRC7044
If they are the same it does seem a waste of time remaking them.
Simon
It depends how you look at it. I've got plenty of silicone to make moulds of front ones, and sets of four will sell far better than rears. They use the same plastic so I won't have to order anything in especially to make them. With the hi viz sets I offer a few options, people can just buy a flag, and I intend to do the same with indicators where you can just buy rears. The problem is that it's unlikely I'll be able to match the original colour which means that although rears would work, it would surely be better to have an exactish match with the fronts?
How about making a front and rear light lenze as well ;) ;)
Good point. I understand. It's a shame you can't get the colour to match as the front ones seen to be cheap on eBay. Well cheap compared to a set of C5 indicators!!
Simon
Quote from: Luke Salsbury on 15, February, 2013 - 18:47:56
How about making a front and rear light lenze as well ;) ;)
They both have problems that I'm trying to think of a way around at the moment. The rear lens, red's actually a really hard plastic to find and because of the size of it would probably cost as much to make as real ones are worth. The front, I haven't found a suitable clear plastic yet. The indicators are actually going to be amber/yellow with a small amount of red dye to turn them orange! Let me think about those after the indicators :)
Going back to front indicators, let me explain the costs involved...
The silicone I buy for the mould comes in 1kg packs... the hi viz flags used (ironically!) exactly a kilo. Because of the small size of the rear lights I'm going to have some left over to mould the front which is a HUGE part of the cost of moulding them wiped out automatically. automatically With the hi viz flags, I have to buy white plastic resin, plus black pigment... with the indicators lenses I'll be buying the plastic for the rear anyway which means that I'll have it already 'in stock' to do fronts with, which means that the cost of doing a complete set compared to just rear is pretty small indeed.
For the hi viz mast sets it costs us about £12 a set to make, £3 to wrap and post, so we're making about a fiver out of each one which isn't a lot, but has given people a new, cheap supply of them and brings a little bit of money in for us too.
I haven't thought of a price for indicator sets yet but I'm aiming for around £40 for a set of 4. Bearing in mind that's 8 mouldings I think it's pretty good value, but I haven't thought about whether to include bulb holders etc yet. If I were just to do rears, I'd still have the cost of the silicone and plastic, (fronts will use hardly any!), which means I'd still have to be charging about £32 - £35 a pair which is why I'd rather do them complete and then give people the option just to buy rears 8)
The two prongs on the front will actually make good pour/air holes, I just haven't figured a way of doing the round bulb holder part yet...
I have seen people selling the front land Rover version as NOS C5 originals. The only difference i can see is the back part is black where the original is a clear colour (same as the lens).
I am sure if these are available as sets or seperately there will be an interest in them.
Re the front lens, the original is made in two halfs, i have a few with damage to the front lens but the rear is in tact, i have managed in the past to use a heated knife to seperate the two halfs and reattach a good front lens to a good rear part and make a good light. Maybe the front lens could be available on its own to allow some of the orignals to be repaired.
John
Just finished pouring the first half of the 4 moulds... awkward doesn't go far enough to explain it. Let's see what happens, but it's a fingers crossed job at the moment as the rear lights are 10 times harder than I thought! They'll either turn out looking incredible, or.... as is far more likely.... have one tiny gap in the mould that I missed letting silicone through and I'll have to start from scratch.
Such is the joy of plastic moulding ::)
Good luck with it, I may be interested in buying a set.
Looking forward to seeing these, def want a set ...... I am sure they will be as good as the flags .. 8)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRC7044-Land-Rover-Defender-Wing-Side-Repeater-Indicator-Lamp-Early-Type-/370609347233?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item564a09daa1
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-PRC7044P
Well, I'm very happy with my hi-vis mast I have to say, so I'm certainly keeping an eye on this thread as I'd love to put indicators on too.
That really is interesting about the Rimmer front indicators, and I've got mixed feelings about them. First, the likeness is amazing, and the fact they come with bulb holders is great! But! At £11 a pair plus postage it would be out of the question for me to include them in my sets because the outlaw would be way too big, so on the basis it's costing very little I think I'll still try doing fronts and then giving people the option of buying from me or just getting rears and buying from Rimmer.
You can pick these up at the Land rover shows for about £1.50 and there are a few other places around the net that are a little cheaper. ;)
I will keep an eye out for some at the next show here in Peterborough ... ;)
Okay, update. The rear light used a LOT more silicone to mould than I thought it would due to the diamond shape of it so I've had to order yet more to make the second half, and it's not cheap. I have temporarily given up on the front ones but I am going to make some enquiries to see if I can order the Land Rover one's in bulk to include as a set at a realistic price.... so it's a work in progress, and I still might get problems casting the rears so at the moment it's a work in progress that I'll keep you all updated about!
The GOOD news is that tonight I think I figured out a possible way for me to cast centre caps! They were proving awkward because I can't cast the hooks that stick out on the end of the three prongs... but I might have worked out a way around it. If I CAN cast centre caps they'll look almost identical to originals and almost the same colour. Estimated cost at about £6 each, but there's still work to do on them :)
These are a bit cheaper
http://www.lrdirect.com/PRC7044-Side-Repeater-Lamp-Late?gclid=CIGMuNGHvLUCFa3KtAod6WQALg
QuoteThe GOOD news is that tonight I think I figured out a possible way for me to cast centre caps!
Cool, I'd be interested in these if you can make them look like the originals. Keep up the great work!
Can't wait to see them when there done ;)
Quote from: dansretropod on 17, February, 2013 - 19:17:37
QuoteThe GOOD news is that tonight I think I figured out a possible way for me to cast centre caps!
Cool, I'd be interested in these if you can make them look like the originals. Keep up the great work!
Well the centre caps have proved a problem (like the rear of the headlight) because it's seriously difficult to mould anything that sticks out, like the bits that clip onto the wheel trim... BUT my theory is that I can make the three prongs solid, and then file them to the original shape! Basically, as long as the outside bit looks good, it doesn't really matter what the back looks like as long as it fits, so we'll see :)
Why not mould the centre caps and the prongs separately? You could make a flat centre and an L-shape prong then simply glue them into position! Would seem simpler to cast that way too ;D
Like the thinking, but drawback would be that the prongs would be too small to mould individually. I should be able to get a fairly decent result with filing, and will be much sturdier too :-)
Indicator mould' s nearly ready, tomorrow night is the night we'll find out if it worked or not. I'm on 50% confidence at the moment so we'll see!
You don't need prongs if you use double sided glazing foam tape (thanks for the tip Chas)
I gave up moulding front ones as they're easily available, it's just the rears I'm concentrating on. I actually ordered a pair to see what they were like and interestingly they have prongs on in the correct position! The only difference is that the bulb holder is slightly wider so the hole would need filing out, but the plan is I'm going to order some so I can offer a complete set, or people can buy the rears rescuately and source their own. The mould's given me a few problems so far so it's fingers crossed it works first! I'll find out tonight :-)
Okay, mildly irritated. The moulds are perfect, incredible detail, but the plastic's being a problem. Far too many tiny air bubbles, colour miles off and not setting hard enough... For how good the moulds are, they will end up great, but for now there's work to be done!
You have far more patience than I would. I hope it works out well in the end. Good luck :)
Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Revience is easy when there's a potential profit involved lol! I might make a white one later to show off what the moulding's like. It's actually pretty amazing, it's got the Magnalite England written as clearly as the original, as well as the lines and speckled outer part on the rear! The plastic's being a real headache though, but once that's sorted (somehow!) you'd have to look closely to tell the difference! The centre caps are looking far more promising at the moment though but the mould won't be set until Monday...
Maybe you could do a clear/frosted version and put the yellow bulbs or LEDs in for those that want to be different 8)
I would love to see some in progress pictures.
Are you making centre caps got the rear wheels?
That would be awesome'
Yep, rear wheel centre caps, they're halfway through the moulding process but I can't see them being too much of a problem... That said, nothing's ever quite as straightforward as it seems ::)
Right, clear plastic lenses. Let me explain the task I'm facing and then I'm all up for ideas ;D
With the silicone I use for the moulds, it's not cheap, but it's great at replicating details. The main plastic it can be used with is polyurethane, like the hi viz masts.
Polyurethane comes in a couple of different types... some set very quickly, I can make a hi viz flag in under 5 minutes(!)... some set really slowly but are generally used for vacuum moulding or other types of casting rather than pouring into a mould which limits me to what I can use. With the one I use, it comes in white or 'clear'. The hi viz masts are actually white with a black pigment.
Following so far? Okay... the pigments cause more problems because they are extremely difficult to measure accurately. Pigments are used at a 0.5% ratio... for every 100ml, it takes 0.5ml to turn it that pigment colour! For that reason, the hi viz flags use 60ml of plastic, and 0.2ml of black pigment to obtain the right shade of grey and even then they're never identical!
With the indicator lenses, the problem gets even worse. 'Clear' polyurethane is actually amber. There IS a clear one, but it's a very slow setting one that can't be used with the moulds I have. The theory was to add a touch of red pigment so that red+amber=orange. The first attempt last night (100ml plastic, 0.2ml pigment) turned it a blood red. No good. So then it becomes silly. I think to get the right shade of orange will actually need approx 60ml plastic with about 0.05ml pigment, and as of yet I haven't found a way of measuring 1ml let alone 0.05ml! Which leaves me back at square one.
I've found a pigment online that is a 10% ratio, that might work, or I've found another which IS orange, but with the amber of the plastic this might turn it a murky orangy yellow instead!
Anyway, as for clear/frosted, I REALLY like the idea, but at the moment I can only do amber ::) I'm kind of an obsessive person, I won't stop until I've got it right, but it's back at the drawing board stage at the moment. I'll knock up a couple later to show you the moulding anyway, but if anyone does have an idea of how I can get orange then I'm definately open to suggestions!! ;D
Have you considered weighing, rather than measuring, the pigment ?
As a general rule, 1ml = 1g, so 0.05ml is 0.05g and that's definitely possible, in fact I measure the same kinds of amounts for sausage making :)
You can get some cheap, accurate scales on Ebay (coincidentally, the same kind that druggies use...) that do 0.01g increments, just get one that can be calibrated if possible. I think mine cost about £10. you could just use a toothpick to add drops of pigment then.
Might be worth a try.
I am very interested in the wheel centres if you can make them like the originals.
I have zero experience with moulding but if I was painting to get amber I would mix yellow and red. I am sure this doesn't help but I thought I would mention it just in case.
Ironically my wife had the toothpick idea too, but the problem is that I don't think it's accurate enough to produce the same colour every time. I like the scales idea, but how would I then transfer 0.05 grams of liquid? :-/
Okay, first sneak peak... here's one I made earlier ::)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/47817_509186125786938_479248581_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/19703_509186129120271_2090892822_n.jpg)
I didn't bother filing it down so it's a little rough, but it shows the shape I can mould at least. This colour is the 'basic' colour straight out of the bottles with no added pigment. I was taking in bad light so it doesn't show the "Magnalite England" on the bottom of the outside, but it's a crystal clear as the "FRONT" and "REAR" are on the hi viz sets.
Looks very good. I'm sure you'll get the pigment correct soon.
That looks pretty damn good to me.
Keep going that looking good as a 1st attempt.
Lance
Looking great well done ...Regarding the mixing what I use is a small plastic syringe and it works great 1 drop at a time ....
Chas
look good
Not sure if it would work, but if you weighed the pigment on clingfilm and then placed that over the resin to transfer it via contact ?
Just trying to think around the problem :)
I think I might have hit on an idea... The supplier I use actually does an orange pigment, but it's quite a high intensity orange. Next time I place an order for silicone or plastic I'll get them to put some in!
Incidentally, I've just poured the second half of the centre cap mould so should have a prototype made up by about tuesday or wednesday when I have time!
My C5's got it's first show of the year in a week's time and ironically the only thing it's missing is the centre caps which is why it'll benefit ME if I can get them right ::) I really don't know a price for them yet, it depends on how they come out and how much work it takes to get them to fit etc :o I'm aiming for about £6 each, so shouldn't be too bad, but obviously I won't know how good/bad they look until the first one comes out of the mould!
Hi, any update on this? I'm very interested in some reproduction rear indicators