Just purchase a c5 stateside. Went to test the motor and pulled the red and black leads out of the control box and gator clipped them to a spare car battery... Nothing... Does this mean my motor is toast? Anything else to try? Any work-around fixes? Also anyway to test the control board and POD? I was thinking of just running the motor from a switch and 70amp 12v relay, but if the motor dosn't spin what are my options?
Hi I think that you will find that the Carbon brushers are stuck in there tubes .What you can try is spray some releasing agent WD40 .it the tubes Then take a look down the tubes and you should see some copper braiding that is attached to the brushers what you have to do is pull on the braiding but be careful not to pull to hard pull it up then push it down a little un till it is free then try the motor .
If it does not work get back to me
Bye Chas
Thanks for the suggestion. I will take the motor out this weekend and take it apart and get back to you!!!
Hi you don't have to take it apart just to move to move the brushers up and down ...but if you are going to strip it down let me know and I can run you through it
Bye Chas
The gearbox on one of my C5's refuses to remove itself from the motor. very frustrating >:(
Hi not sure what you have done but you could first of all is to spray WD40 on the clips .once the clips have been opened (be careful not to break them ) you can get two screw drivers one on each side and place them down the side of the bolts ..then gently try and ease the gearbox up ..
Put in the search box at the top of the page Removing the gearbox you may find it useful
https://flic.kr/p/pKoNEp
leylandmonster
When pulling on the tiny portion of brown gearbox plastic available began to damage it I stopped and placed a jubilee clip tightly around it. This gave me something more to lever against and worked.
Hi there great idea I will be using it on my motors in future
Bye Chas
chas,
I removed the motor, have not taken it apart yet. I "bench tested" it to 12V and still locked up solid. I cannot spin it by hand either, should I be able to?. What do I have to remove to see the carbon brushes and tubes? Not sure what to push and pull on and wanted to ask before I broke it beyond repair.
Also, when taking the C5 apart, I removed the upper shell from the lower shell. I know now I didn't have to do this. Did I screw this up bad? How do I re affix the two shells together?
Adam from the US.
Hi you should be able to move it by hand .You may find that the bearings have seized up ...So it looks like the motor will have to be striped down if that is what you intend doing I can help you through it
Chas
Yeah Chas, It's locked up tight. I would love some help! I didn't ask on the body removal and we know that separating the halves were mistake. Should have asked I guess... Is there a walk thru of some type floating around? Before I start, I will await your advice so I don't break it beyond repair.
Adam from the US
Hi there Adam regarding the c5 first thing you could do is to check out my videos on YouTube look under JORDAN8ISH
They should help then we can go through stripping servicing and rebuilding your C5
Bye Chas
I visted the youtube channel and book marked it. Great videos! Before I remove the two long top bolts, is there anything I should be aware of before opening up the casing? Can I liberally lube up the entire contents with WD-40 or PB Blaster? Is there any general do's or dont's before I crack it open? Dont want to break beyond repair or I'll need to source a new one from on your side of the water.
Hi there Adam not sure how far you have got but first of all I would take the gearbox off taking note how it comes off as there is a key way slot on the outer case all you have to do is to mark the gear box casing and the motor as they need to go back the same way
Any way check out these old posts from members they should help
Bye chas
https://flic.kr/p/pfuu6E
http://c5alive.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=367.0
http://c5alive.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=368.0
..should be enough to get you on the right path, any snags give us a shout ;D
Not forgetting the gearbox removal topic;
http://c5alive.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1217.0
Sent from my iPad
Great links. I will take apart the motor this weekend and see whats going on in it. Do I only need to grease the gearbox? Or the armature as well? What kind of grease do I use?
Thanks!
Hi you can grease the bearings if you like but they where sealed and fitted from new .But if they are seized they will need replacing ...
Regarding the gear box I use a general purpose grease .
Chas
I took apart the motor and things don't look right.
I uploaded a video to youtube (3 minutes) where I ask a few questions and show all components.
You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J566y_JzjrU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J566y_JzjrU)
These images are to show the slag on the armature that I talk about in the video.
(http://s8.postimg.org/hphwgga7l/DSC08861.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hphwgga7l/)
(http://s8.postimg.org/fwezs4p0x/DSC08862.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fwezs4p0x/)
Any advice or knowledge that can be passed is helpful, thanks.
Hi Adam just been on YouTube and looked at your video .as far as I can see the motor has been overloaded and is is now burnt out it will be not be any use sorry
Regarding the thin washers they do go where you said the flat one on the bottom when you rebuild the motor up put some grease on them to keep them in place .
Next thing the gearbox is in good condition and should be as it is the reason for the shape is that when its in place the motor can be turned a little to tighten the belt when putting the motor check the key ways ..
Also the brushers seem to be ok but when you put them back make sure they are tight in place .as they where made to be fitted once .
Bye Chas
Just one more thing make sure that the magnets have not come away from the sides they where only glued in place and sometimes come. away
Chas
Ps it's not all that bad don't give up
Hi Adam,
before junking the motor, take the armature (the part that rotates) to a motor specialist and have them check the coils for short circuits, at the same time have the commutator surface (the copper segments at the end of the armature) checked. If there are shorts it's a case for a replacement motor, unless someone is prepared to rewind it for a reasonable price. If the surface of the commutator is badly scratched have it cleaned.
There as a couple of points that have not been covered. Firstly, why did the motor end up in this condition? The motor has a thermal cutout fitted to the case, plus a thermistor, to measure the temperature, that is located within the armature. These are there to protect the motor from overheating.
(http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w477/XE521/AssemblyPlans_zps24fc9e8c.jpg)
It seems to me that these two items have been bypassed.
Assuming all is OK, it is imperative to have the thermal cutout mounted on the motor casing. You can do away with the thermistor, but it is advisable to have it fitted. The thermistor activates a warning signal on the Pod unit, indicating that the motor is starting to overheat.
Hope this is of some use to you.
Hi there as Karl has said someone must have bypassed the Sensors .
But have the rotor checked out and let us know how much it would cost to rewind it as I do have a spare rotor so do not throw any thing away bye Chas
Chas / Karl,
Thanks for all the assistance on this. I will locate a business to take the armature into next week as everyone is closed for thanksgiving. I'll see if the part can be saved or rebuilt and will post back to the forum at the end of next week. Thanks again for all the help. Spirits are high still because of this forum .
Adam
Hi!
I took a similar size motor windings to a local re-winder recently. He did not repair such small motors but sent them away to Birmingham (UK) and suggested £120- was their normal price.
Hi Adam,
after reading Chas's post I would recommend buying the armature from him. The reason I recommend this is, even if the coils are not open or short circuit you can never be sure that it will hold out in the future. From the photos you posted, the thing looks like it is/was on it's last legs. Just think of the wasted time involved if all is reassembled and then, after a couple of miles or so, the motor packs up. Plus of course I should imagine the P&P for the armature would be far less than a complete motor.
After looking at the armature again, I think I agree. Chas, If the offer is still there - I would greatly appreciate the opportunity. Please let me know what you are looking for it and my zip code is 53959, Wisconsin in the US. If you guys think the picture / Video looks bad, the armature in person is even worse. :'( I am also looking for front hub caps if anyone has an extra.
Hi Adam ok will send the rotor just need to check the p/packing will get back to you later for the total cost
Bye Chas
Hi there Adam just checked the postage and it goes from £25.00 to £70 .00
That does not include ins ....
Chas
If you still want to go ahead can you give me your full posting details .
Also if you are going to scrap the old rotor before you do have some one take off the cog as they are very hard to find .
Bye Chas
Chas, I sent you an email. Thanks again to everyone for the help and advice on this project!
Adam from the US
Hi there Adam your parcel has been posted and will take up to 10 days to get to you .the posting will be £25.00 no charge for the rotor just the posting .
Bye Chas will send a PM you the tracking no ...
Chas is a star. If I could give you a medal on this site I would lol ;D
Thanks hope all goes well
Chas
Quotethe posting will be £25.00
Wow! :o It costs me almost this much to have a mag sent from the states. :( :(
Many Thanks again Chas, for all the help and the needed part. Is a private message different than an email in this forum as I have not received any further emails from you?
And as mentioned before - I will make sure to list all my extra parts after the project is complete in case you or anyone else needs one of them. Your member list here is a great group of guys, glad to be a part of it!
Hi Adam sorry about the PM /email the reason is that the I dropped the parcel at the pickup point but it will not be picked up until Monday
I will then have the tracking number and will pass it on to you ...let me know when when you receive it and I can if you want run you through the build up .
All the best Chas
No problem chas, I just wanted to make sure I reimburse you quickly for the posting and not let it sit as you and the other members have been great! :)
Hi there Adam no problem ..
Chas
Hi there Adam tracking no sent to your email address
Bye and thanks Chas
Hi there Adam lets wait till the rotor is in your hands.
Bye thanks Chas
Chas,
Another question. When I build the wiring harness should I place the fuse before or after the relay and what size fuse should be used?
Adam
Hi there Adam will get back to you later got to go out won't be back till late
Ps if you can give me some idea of the wiring that you will be making ...And what will be connected to it
Bye Chas
chas,
I emailed you a pdf of my planned wiring setup. Hopefully when the pdf is complete and finished, it will be a good resource for others that need to replace all factory wiring.
Adam
Hi there Adam thanks for the message .
Regarding the wiring dia it looks great but I am no expert but I do have a mate that will check it out and I will get back to you ...
All the best Chas
Chas,
I just received the armature!!! wow... that is what this unit is suppose to look like? Chas, it's a thing of beauty... Is there a certain way I should put it back together. I am going to take this one slow to make sure we can get her back up and running the right way!
Adam
That's great I was getting a bit worried..
What I can do is to make a small video on how to build the motor back up..in the mean time can you make sure that you have some grease and that the threads on the two long bolts are clean and a little greased ,and the rest of the parts are clean free from dirt and rust .
Also did you say that the brushes have been taken out ........????
Will get back to you ASAP all the best Chas ps don't forget the large thin bearing in the gearbox check that is turning free .
Chas,
1. My old armature is still in the gear box. It's in there tight and I didn't want to break something. How do I get it out safely?
2. The long bolts are in great shape with good threads.
3. I had seen some photos with small holes drilled in the motor casing? Is this something I want to do?
4. What grease do I use on the plastic gearing? White Lithium? Non-freezing grease? Black Multi-Purpose Grease?
5. Yes, I took both brushes out? I labeled the casing so they go back in correctly. But both brushes are black, should I sand them?
Adam
Hi there Adam regarding the holes they are drilled in the case but they are more for converting the C5 to a 24volt system and need as much cooling that you can get but with the 12volt it is not nessasery.But you can fit a fan to the motor just to keep it cool
Regarding the grease I use a yellow general purpose.
Also not sure about the brushes (both black)
Now getting the old rotor out what I would do first Is to spray some WD 40 on the rotor and leave it to soak
Can you send me a photo of the rotor inside the gearbox
Bye Chas
Hi Adam just checked your video and I can see what you mean ....photo to foll
Chas
Try and ease the gearbox insert off first ...When its off take a look at the last photo and see that you may have to tap e fingers so the old rotor comes out
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/imagejpg2-1.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/jordan8_2009/media/imagejpg2-1.jpg.html)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/29396dec-c23b-4c11-b012-a6ad0919199c.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/jordan8_2009/media/29396dec-c23b-4c11-b012-a6ad0919199c.jpg.html)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/imagejpg3-1.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/jordan8_2009/media/imagejpg3-1.jpg.html)
regarding the brushes leave them as they are ...will get back to you after you have taken the old roror off
Chas,
I will do the steps above, but sadly have come down with the flu. :'( So it may be a few days before I feel up to the garage. I will post when I am back up feeling better and have gotten the old armature out.
Adam
Hi Adam no problem
Bye Chas
Hi there Adam just had my mate check out the wiring dia and it looks like it will work ...Just one thing mabe you should monitor the temp of the motor and put in a thermistor just in case or you could fit a fan to work when / if the motor gets to hot
Bye Chas
Chas,
Finally feeling a tad better and tried the steps below. It worked amazing! I went slow and the gear box insert moved little by little. It went really well. Thanks for the great tip! Currently, I have all the parts apart, All parts have been cleaned and new grease purchased. Things are looking up! :)
Hi there there that sounds great .just one thing is the large thin bearing ok ...
Here is a few photos of the motor take note of the keyways
Please note the motor has not been cleaned or restored just striped it down and built it up to show how it goes back together
The first thing is to place the two thin washers at the bottom of the alloy part put a little grease on them to keep them in place
Take note of the red positive cable of the left side and which way round each section goes check the marker pen marks
Put the rotor in the lower part (alloy part ) making sure that the washers are still in place .ps you can put the brushes in last
Then place the steel tube over the rotor but be careful as the magnets will stick to the rotor try and keep it from touching the rotor and pulling it out (I always place the alloy part in the vice ..make sure that the keyways are in the right place ......
The next thing is to fit the plastic part the one that has the fingers that holds all together when the 2 long bolts are fitted .
If all goes well then it's the gearbox insert and the gearbox outer case to be greased and fitted again there is a keyway on the gearbox outer case
And on one of the fingers Make sure they are lined up .
Ps I missed out the long bolts but it does not matter as it will be striped down again and serviced .
Bye Chas
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg1.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/jordan8_2009/media/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg1.jpg.html)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg2.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/jordan8_2009/media/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg2.jpg.html)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg4.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/jordan8_2009/media/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg4.jpg.html)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg3.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/jordan8_2009/media/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg3.jpg.html)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg6.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/jordan8_2009/media/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg6.jpg.html)
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg7.jpg) (http://s992.photobucket.com/user/jordan8_2009/media/twin%20battery%20c5/USA/imagejpg7.jpg.html)
Chas,
I will be doing this on Saturday or Sunday and will post the results at the end of the weekend! Adam
Hi there thanks for the post look forward to hearing from you over the weekend ...
All the best Chas
Chas,
Everything has went well, but I cant get the gearbox outer case to snap back down on the motor. I need to get it another 1/16th of an inch or so. I tried tapping on it with a rubber mallet, but did not want to force it. Any suggestions?
Adam
Hi Adam sounds like you have been busy ..first of all have you taped the gearbox insert down on the rotor as far as it will go ,but be carful not hit it to hard ..then have you lined up all the key slots on the motor ...making sure the gearbox out case is lined up with the keyway ...
If you can a post a few photos may help all the best Chas
I'll try tapping the insert down onto the rotor again. I did line up all key slots, and keyways. I will try the rotor again and post back. Thanks Chas.
Chas,
Two things discovered in the garage.
1. The motor runs with 12V (no gearbox connected) Awesome!!! It works!
2. The new armature and old armature are slightly different at the top. On the old armature, the two top bearings rest on the top gear cog with a 1/8" shaft protruding out of them. On the new armature, the bearings are level with the shaft and there is an 1/8" gap between the bearings and gear cog. The main gearbox piece has an interior offset that the bearings stop at when inserted. On the new armature, it stops a 1/8" sooner because of bearing position. I think this is what is going on and why the outer gearbox will not seat properly.
(http://s9.postimg.org/fhxd0gbdn/DSC08923.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fhxd0gbdn/)
(http://s4.postimg.org/ug0hznchl/DSC08926.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ug0hznchl/)
Have you seen this? If so, please advise. I am sorry I have had so many issues on something that seems simple.
Adam
Hi Adam it looks like I have replaced the bearings on the rotor some time but have not pushed the small ones down enough .
What you may have to do is to get a tube of the right dia and tap the two small bearings down they should move easily .
Also have you checked the large thin bearing is pushed all the way down .
Bye Chas
Chas, I will tap the two small bearing down the shaft. What is the large thin bearing? Is it the bearing in the outer gear housing? If so, it is seated properly.
Adam
Chas,
The motor is now assembled and working properly. The top shaft has a slight wobble (slight bend) but it seems to have no ill effect as the outer gear housing still fits over the top and I can still spin the motor by hand. So I expect it to be fine. Thanks again for all the help and for not giving up on me with this.
And Chas, Merry Christmas.
Hi there Adam that's great well done .Whats the next thing I would like to help again
So contact me anytime
Bye Chas :) :) :)
Thanks again Chas, I couldn't have done it without you! :D