Just a little "taster"...
The gearbox project that "electricDave" is working on is taking shape.
I'm off to view a working prototype on Saturday 8)
For those that don't know, we are working on a replacement for the plastic gearbox. The idea is to produce something that is "plug'n'play" meaning you can fit one to a c5 with the minimal amount of work.
If this conversion is successful it would mean, if you wanted too, you could then start fitting 24v kits again and have reliable full power 24v c5's.
Something to look forward to in 2010 ;D
So hope this is a success as the 'pimping' project is calling out for 24v !!!
definitely be up for this so will hold fire on the other options ;D
just had a thought, in another thread someone suggested fitting an aditional C5 motor to the other side, but me thinks it would make the C5 excellent at doing doughnuts (Brooklands beckons ::)) but not so good in a straight line as the motors won't do reverse (yet!) ;D
regs
alan
This is something I would definetly be interested in too.
If it helps I have mentioned before that I know a mechanic with his own C&C lathe setup and he maybe able to knock up or assist with any custom parts that maybe required or hard to source.
Kurt.
Hi if it.s the DC motor you want go in reverse all you need to do is connect the red to negative and the black to positive and away you go ...
Take a look at this (http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af46/jordan8_2009/n_a.jpg)
i stand corrected, i was going on previously made comments that these motors don't reverse, hence no reverse option in normal use, might be that the pedal chain gear would be a tad inconvenient in reverse ;D.
i'm curious if your set up is using 2 x standard controllers, and if so did you need to (and how) balance the motors outputs? given both wheels are driven i assume equally, how dose it affect steering when turning slow tighter corners? or do you only use one motor for that?
i'd guess you could now have a tighter turning circle radius as long as you have a 'go button' for each motor, the radius limit chosen in design stage in some part would be to allow left hand turns without over stressing the drive train.
i'd also interested in the advantages/disadvantages you have found, i.e. with the doubled torque available if it made a significant difference on hills, was there a significant reduction in running time.
res
alan
C5's don't have a reverse gear as such, which is what was highlighted in Chris Barries TV programme.
As Chas rightly says, the motors will happily run in reverse if you connect them up "the wrong way round".
However, make sure it is a direct connection to the battery that doesn't involve the C5's original wiring/pod/control box - otherwise it will get expensive :o
way back in the day, i seem to remember along these lines, you used to be able to drive a reliant 3 wheeler on a full motorcycle license without 'L' plates, as long as you blocked out reverse gear because it was then classed as a motorised tricycle and not a car.
so i wonder did that affect the C5 design in this not having reverse, was it easier to mak the controller for use one direction or was it simply that the pedals would also rotated in reverse and perhaps risk break a few legs?
give you some idea how dodgy this would be, a lad at my school took a mobylete moped over the local tip, an are known as 'the mammary' (well work the real east london words out for your selves).
him not being the brightest spark at a bonfire party, drove this moped at full tilt down into the 'valley', got half way up the other side on sheer momentum alone then run out of steam.
resulting in a forced reverse maneuver despite his best peddling efforts - and a broken leg from the now furiously backwards rotating pedals :o
regs
alan
You are right connecting the motor in reverse will drive the pedals backwards .but if you want to covert the c5 to run on 24 volt using a 24 volt control er you could disconnect the chain or even take the pedals of ..to make it safe ::)
I reckon having a lack of reverse is simply down to keeping the cost of production as low as possible, and that it is essentially a bicycle - which seldom have reverse gears.
Quote from: C5 ENTHUSIAST + RESTORER on 18, December, 2009 - 09:31:12
You are right connecting the motor in reverse will drive the pedals backwards .but if you want to covert the c5 to run on 24 volt using a 24 volt control er you could disconnect the chain or even take the pedals of ..to make it safe ::)
the power given with your set up or 24 volt would obviate the need of the pedals, but if you want to appear to be street legal they need to be in place at least for visual's.
imo whats needed is a way of disengaging the pedals in some way, be it a form of clutch or idler mod but tbh i've not heard of anyone getting nicked for not complying on a C5 fully with the regs, if you did i wonder what would be the result? warning, C5 confiscation and or prosecution.
the mino moto's et crushed but seems rare prosecution is followed through, so i'd suppose depends how naughty you were being while riding it, getting clocked @ 85mph in a 30 might just be seen as anti-social - but would certainly make you famous on YouTube ;D
regs
alan
Went along today to see "electricdave" and view the prototype metal gearbox conversion he's been busy working on. As the title of this thread suggests - it is all starting to take shape quite nicely;
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i257/1stbooboo/19-12-09_1414.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i257/1stbooboo/Photo-0012.jpg)
Although it looks nearly finished there is still some way to go, but we are hoping to have a working prototype on display at C5-25.
Should make for some interesting c5 modifications in 2010 ;D 8)
Looking good !!!!!
you got a lot of us slobbering after this new box, if successful what sort of price for it do you envisage?
(i hpope mates rates for C5Alive member ;D)
regs
alan
Quote from: techytype on 20, December, 2009 - 15:02:40
you got a lot of us slobbering after this new box.....
...you're not the only ones slobbering, I've been drooling over it as well ...must be the thought of running a
reliable max power 24v, "voodoo" will have a new lease of life ;D
24v volt Karl ??? where's your ambition man?
36v more like ;D
regs
alan
I'm happy with 24v ;D Carrying just the two lead/acid batteries suits me just fine ;) , couldn't really justify the expense of Li-ion power packs to get up to 36v - and three lead/acid batteries would be too heavy.
Besides, a maxed out 24v c5 is plenty quick enough - as the one c5Martin and I sorted for Jason Bradbury proved. If this gearbox conversion works, I'll be very happy.
Does anyone know where to find details of the power curve/characteristics of the standard c5 motor ? Can't seem to find it listed anywhere or even a Polymotor site ???
Is it in here?
http://www.c5alive.co.uk/pub/downloads/C5-UnofficialServiceManual.pdf (http://www.c5alive.co.uk/pub/downloads/C5-UnofficialServiceManual.pdf)
i know it's favoured to use a single 12v leisure batt, and for longer journey stamina that's fine.
from what i see on the run in Brighton, it's rarely most are going to use the high speed option for more than short bursts or for climbing steeper inclines.
i wonder if 3 x M/C batt's to give 36 volts were used for these bursts, perhaps using an electrical contactor (heavy duty relay) to switch between the two battery power sources, you could get the best of both worlds without the higher battery costs. if initial starts were on 12 volts switching to higher volts once moving above say 6 mph thayt would help reduce 'stall' current from dumping the smaller amp hr batts.
the original cell was very small, and i'd be real curious to know how long the modern day M/C batts would actually last if they were the sole power source, although you will have less amps available the higher grunt offered by 36 volts imo will go a fair way to balance out that 'loss' to be a fair compromise of the higher speed.
several configurations might be worked out based on the above, but you can get the gist of my theory, so now just hurry up with them darn boxes ;D. ;D ;D
regs
alan
Quote from: minimin on 22, December, 2009 - 23:05:20
Is it in here?
http://www.c5alive.co.uk/pub/downloads/C5-UnofficialServiceManual.pdf (http://www.c5alive.co.uk/pub/downloads/C5-UnofficialServiceManual.pdf)
...you're right, there are a few graphs etc in there - but not what we need . I'm after the power curve that gives torque figures at given revs etc.
Quote from: BooBoo on 23, December, 2009 - 09:02:25
Quote from: minimin on 22, December, 2009 - 23:05:20
Is it in here?
http://www.c5alive.co.uk/pub/downloads/C5-UnofficialServiceManual.pdf (http://www.c5alive.co.uk/pub/downloads/C5-UnofficialServiceManual.pdf)
...you're right, there are a few graphs etc in there - but not what we need . I'm after the power curve that gives torque figures at given revs etc.
tbh Karl, think you will have problems with getting this info, Hoover would be the ones or perhaps Adam.
but i'd wonder at the value of it even if available, the original setup has the motor is running via a reduction gearbox @ 12v, so we can work out the reduction ratio, we also know this setup has very little grunt running at this voltage especially at lower revs and soon runs out of puff on inclines.
if you again lower te ratio then you will have more grunt but lower top speed
my 2pth , i think you have to make a decision whether to run with 12 volts and same gear ratio as original, or go for 24v allowing marginally higher gearing.
if you go this route you might have to do some experiments on what damage might be done if the motor is stalled.
you already have a machine running 24v so you know how effective it is with original gearing which seemed very sprightly to me. you can't please all the people all the time so now you need to decide if that performance is enough for most, personally i think it is as these machines were never designed to be quick ::).
if anything my advice would be make the standard ratio box as i'm sure these will sell in bigger quantities, then make a 'MKII' performance option with a higher ratio.
i've seen mods using sturmy archer hub gears, might be another way forward later on.
regs
alan